Help please — corn/rain/etc
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Bill
Location: Washington, Western Cascade Foothills
Posted: May-12-2005 at 9:00pm
Howdy all, my first post here and hoping a newbie can get some help.
This is my first year gardening having left the farm over 20+ years ago.
I rented a gigantic tiller and put in a 20X60 garden I then ran and got a load of aged cow manure and tilled that in too.
On May 1st I put in 4 rows of Bodacious sweet corn (a whole bunch of other stuff too, but some of that is actually growing). Anyhow on my corn - not one has come up, no signs of anything sprouting there (cept weeds).
I found an only used once Mantis Mini-tiller at a garage sale for $150 with attachments and now my soil is really great for planting but I am thinking perhaps my soil wasn't prepped enough for my first batch of corn as it wasn't really close to being broke down right (if that makes sense)? Or did I plant to early? Or something else like a crow got in it?
My onions are growing great, I have a salad from my garden tonight from the thinnings of my Mesclun so I am getting things to grow. I am hoping I see mt taters soon, I got a late start planting them. I planted 4 more rows of corn tonight.
I am thinking I should just roto-till all 4 of my original rows of corn and then plant 4 fresh rows. Should I wait another week or if it isn't up by now is it safe to assume it isn't going to grow?
have been lurking a bit and recognize there is a lot of knowledge on here and would appreciate any thoughts.
Edited to add: Also how ya all getting your work done in all this rain? Suppose to rain the next week seems like it's too wet to work in it?
GardenNut
Location: Washington, Western Cascade Foothills
Posted: May-12-2005 at 9:45pm
I don't grow corn, but it seems a bit early to plant it. The local corn farmers haven't planted their corn yet. According to my Territorial catalog, the soil temperature has to be at least 60 degrees, and they suggest waiting until June 1st. You might want to check what your soil temp is - I use a cheap instant-read thermometer from a kitchen store.
It takes patience to grow corn here (which is one of the reasons I don't .) My Iowan grandmother rolls her eyes at how long we have to wait to plant. "Knee high by the Fourth of July" just doesn't happen here.
What rain? It hasn't rained here since Tuesday morning. I dash between showers, and if that doesn't work, rubber gloves, muck shoes, and Gore-Tex! Chris Sunset 4 USDA 8a
Bill
Location: Washington, Western Cascade Foothills
Posted: May-13-2005 at 10:29am
Thanks much,
I haven't checked my soil temp I will take a look at a thermometer like you mentioned.
Well I will remain hopeful the rows I planted last night will kick in, but I reckon that the first four rows aint gonna come up and between now and June 1st I will re-till them all and then plan on planting 4 new rows there around then.
I used to always tell people that "Knee high by the 4th of July" is only for cow corn
Lisa A
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: May-13-2005 at 3:52pm
Hi Bill, welcome to Rainy Side!
Have you read the great information found in TOTW-Growing Corn? If you haven't, you should.
TOTW stands for Topic of the Week
cjmiller
Location: Oregon, Willamette Valley
Posted: May-13-2005 at 5:40pm
Yes, do read the TOTW on corn. I have been planting corn for quite a few years--more than 20-- and it was a real eye opener. I just kept saying, "I didnt know that", except I do know that planting corn before June 1st in the PNW is asking for weeks of disappointment and frustration. When the temp is right, you can get corn sprouting is less than a week. You know it is too wet when there are puddles filling in where you stepped in the garden. It sounds like you have a great start and I am impressed with harvesting lettuce already. PS. I purchased my first soil thermometer ever, after reading that article. all of $6. It never hurts to have all the right tools. Good luck.
Carol
Bill
Location: Washington, Western Cascade Foothills
Posted: May-13-2005 at 7:25pm
Thanks for the warm welcome. I have read that thread, but will read it again, I didn't know what TOTW was an its been killing me trying to figure it out, so thanks!
I will hold out hope that the rows I planted last night will take hold but I am now planning on re-tilling and planting those first 4 rows after the 1st of June.
I will pick up the thermometer this weekend. Thankfully three more packets of seeds are not too expensive, and working in the garden is good fun.
Great forum you have here, thanks for the advice!
I got the lettuce growing good, my Kohl Rabi, Onions, and beats have all sprouted, I think the potaters are up... maybe.. I forget what they look like at first, but I think it's them, I will need to google a pic.
Great fun, and honest work, I wish I had put a garden in years ago. I can't wait till fall to put all my Garlic in
gary
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: May-14-2005 at 7:39am
Bill,
You haven't put up your soil temp yet for me to check but in my sandy loam raised beds (on top of sandy soil), I have ranged from 56 to 63F for the first 14 days of May.
I am in SE Olympia near the high school and do not have as cold nights as the Oly Airport does. My Farmers' Market grower friend is within a mile of the airport so I track those temps to forecast his sowing and market timing. His first planting both under plastic and normal was on April 4th but he is using treated seeds. Other friends with some of his seeds have 6 inch plants from mid-April sowings but they also have sandy soil and pre-sprout the seeds before dropping them in the ground. I plugged a May 1st sowing into my spreadsheet, and would expect emergence to take 13-14 days, meaning TODAY.
Your site may be cooler and you may have colder soil temps (like with wet clayey soils?). The depth that you sowed the seeds also can extend the timing (deeper than a inch in May).
I would do some light scratching to see if you can find some sprouted seeds. Assuming the plants emerge and do not get hit by a 28F frost, your corn would be ready to harvest about August 10th with 30-yr. average Olympia weather. Bodacious requires 1,250-1,300 corn heat units (CHU's) to be ready for market harvest. (See my TOTW for more info on CHU's)
Emergence is also the time to sow again if you want a second crop about 10 days after the first sowing. If your germination is spotty, you can fill in later this month and extend the harvest from the existing rows.
Your profile states WA foothills so I can't be specific to your climate without more info. The frost likelihood here at the Oly AP is down less than 10% with only 3 dates below 30F left this month in the last 57 years. If your foothill site is in a valley floor, you could get caught on a clear night by the cold air moving downslope. A garden on a south facing slope will gain on soil temp and sunlight.
Gary
Bill
Location: Washington, Western Cascade Foothills
Posted: May-14-2005 at 2:14pm
I went out today and started sifting through the dirt to find my corn I planted in my first four rows on May 1st. I guess I planted them too deep and too early. They were about 1.5 - 2" deep. The second batch I planted this past Thursday was not as deep though.
I checked about 5 kernels and none had anything growing out of them, though they all seemed to be pretty wet and split.
I will retill the soil on the next day it's dry enough for me to work there (I would today but have I to work)unless something odd happens and some actually sprout.
I called all over but finally found a place to purchase a soil thermometer and tested my soil in the midst of where my corn rows are and it was 70 degrees about 2" deep at 1300hrs. I can test it at anytime you want tomorrow if I should do in the morning?
Gary, I live between Ames Lake (in Redmond) and Carnation, on the higher side near Ames Lake. The whole CHU thingie is a bit beyond me. I will check the temp tomorrow at whatever time you want - could you recommend the best day I should plant for my area for corn? My concern would be best date to get it to grow, not so concerned about when it is going to be done (well before it gets too cold of course). Those 4 rows I will be re-doing are the sunniest part of my garden and the soil will be perfect after I do it all over with the Mantis, I have 3 packets of Bodacious that will just fill those 4 rows and I would really like for it to grow.
Once again, thanks for your help.
DebbieTT
Location: Washington, Kitsap Peninsula
Posted: May-14-2005 at 3:47pm
Bill, I am curious why you have to retill the soil again?
Bill
Location: Washington, Western Cascade Foothills
Posted: May-14-2005 at 8:11pm
Really just because it needs it and now I have the equipment to do it easily.
The long answer would go like this: When I put in that first 4 rows of corn it was after I had rented a big 11.5HP tiller with hydraulics and all, and it did a good job tearing up the lawn, then I spread over it aged manure and tilled it again before taking the big tiller back to the rental place.
A few weeks passed before I planted the corn and with the rain and all it was pretty hard again so I did it over with a hoe but I still don't like how the soil looks, it is just not the right texture and isnt broken down enough I mean there are still clumps of aged manure. I planted that first 4 rows in that anyhow even though I did my best with a hoe to break up the small row I actually planted the corn in.
Now I have a little Mantis mini-tiller and after a time or two with that I really love how the soil comes out. So it would only take me 20 minutes to make that little section of soil really nice like the rest of the garden and I figure if those seeds are no good it's a great chance to get to re-till it before I plant more corn.
gary
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: May-15-2005 at 5:53am
Bill,
I always record my soil temps about 7 AM. (a little later in winter, earier in summer daylights) I remember Trav saying that he checks at 9 AM. Either way our assumption is that this is normally the coldest soil temp of the day. I leave it angled into the soil so the tip is about 3-4" deep in the soil.
You'll find that the quickest influence to changing the soil temps besides the diurnal variations is rainfall. I've had about 1/4" of rain over nite with about 59F air temps. I expect the soil to be very close to 59F when I check in an hour.
Gary
Bill
Location: Washington, Western Cascade Foothills
Posted: May-15-2005 at 8:30am
I actually managed to sleep in a little bit this morning but I just checked at 8:15 AM and it was 62 degrees in the midst of the corn.
I leave for work at 7:00 AM and can start checking it then.
Bill
Location: Washington, Western Cascade Foothills
Posted: Jun-03-2005 at 4:37pm
I just wanted to follow up and tell ya how my corn is doing.
On the first 4 rows: alot of it actually did come up now - almost exactly at the distance I would have thinned it to. I planted maybe 12 new seeds in some gaps, but other wise they are actually doing really good and averaging between 3"-6" tall as of last night.
On the second batch which was three rows: they have done really well, I would say 95% of the corn planted there is at around 3" in height right now. I will need to thin them as there are too many.
btw - thinning is painful, those little guys (and gals) worked so hard to make it up and start growing and I just thin them out... sigh.
gary
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Jun-04-2005 at 7:27am
Bill,
Gad to hear that everything worked out. Be careful that there are no crows around as you do the thinning. Your corn is just the size for them now. They will try to do the thinning for you. Unfortunately, they simply walk down the row, pulling every plant to eat the kernals.
If you are interested, for my grower here in Olympia I would have sequenced 4 corn plantings by now starting with your May 1st date. The other sowings would be on 5/14, 5/26, and Monday 6/5.
With "2004" weather from now on, these would be ready for harvest start about 8/13, 8/19, 8/25, & 9/3. With "normal" weather, I would expect these to be ready for harvest start about 8/23, 8/31, 9/9, & 9/18. Again this is Olympia CHU's. Sites north with warmer nights can make up some of the deficit of cooler daytime temps.
You can look up the "normal" CHU's for a site near you at:
"Washington Climate Summaries"
The Oregon folks can follow the "Western U.S. Map link at the upper left to find your state and its sites. Once you are at a site, go to Growing Degree Days under the General Climate Summary Tables.
Gary
Bill
Location: Washington, Western Cascade Foothills
Posted: Jun-04-2005 at 8:42am
Thanks much Gary,
I'd like to put in one more batch of 4 rows of corn but I am out of garden space. Between the playgrounds, fire pits, sheds, and now the garden I can mow my shy acre in just minutes. My last spot of flat ground I am saving for Garlic in the fall.
I will definetly follow your planting schedule next year.
gary
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Jun-05-2005 at 7:42am
With one variety, the basic rule again (without the weather spreadsheets) is to sow after the last one has emerged. That will give you a 7-10+ day harvest interval in August/Sept (slower later).
Gary
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