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Gardening in the Rainy Zone.
Fall Flowers and Berries
Posted: Sep-28-2004 at 10:03pm
One thing I am interested in planting over the next couple of years is fall flowers and berries. I am thinking vinces as I just saw one today, not a large vine but with white flowers on it. I also see a shrub that I am assuming is pyracantha. It is smallish and does not appear to be upright growing much but it is glowing right now with orange berries.
I hear one can make jelly too with pyracantha and leave it to me to make jelly out of anything I can (love oregon grape). But really I want the fall color. I am not really looking for leaf color but things that are flowering or berried in the area now.
I am not talking fall flowers in general unless they are a small shrub or a vine.
Posted: Sep-29-2004 at 9:31am
My pyracantha is looking gorgeous right now. It's in a shady, out of the way spot so the bright orange berries really light up the area. The holly berries are just starting to redden up. Have you looked into PNW native snowberry(Symphoricarpos albus ) for really cool white berries. Can't beat the huckleberries for tasty and beautiful berries! Oh and how about salal (Gaultheria Shallon).
Posted: Sep-29-2004 at 7:53pm
Jeanne, The two that you mentioned snowberry and salal, well the ones I have seen end up looking ratty. Is it lack of care? thanks
Posted: Sep-29-2004 at 8:40pm
Salal can get black and brown spots on the leaves (fungus?), but that's never bothered me. The ones I have in my woodland garden are full and (to my eye) lovely. There are some black and brown spots on the older leaves, and something has chewed a few . . . but it doesn't bother me.
Posted: Sep-30-2004 at 4:56pm
My salal leaves do get tattered but that is probably slugs. There are some brown spots but usually minimal. For the snowberry, are you talking about the leaves? Mine seems to be doing okay, no ratty leaves. But I've only had it for a year.
Posted: Sep-30-2004 at 8:55pm
Ahhh a woodland garden.
The snowberry is pretty in flower but with berries the ones I see normally have very little. But I do not see them in a true habitat, only cityfied. There are some more plants, on is a shrub it appears to get about 9 feet but I see many of them at a smaller size. The leaves are glossy green and possibly evergreen but can't remember. It has berries/fruit the size of grapes but in singles, they are oranagish. Very pretty fruit whatever it is.
There appears to be some rhodies in flower now and dogwood maybe but also some vines and a few other shrubs. There was this tiny shrub in Mi that flowered tiny tiny flowers in fall, very fragrent, wish I could id that one.
Posted: Oct-01-2004 at 8:19am
I have noticed some rhodies in bloom also. One of my clematis has put out a smaller than normal flower. They must think it is spring!
As far as your shrub with orangish grape size berries, I thought for a minute you meant salmonberry but the leaves are not glossy. Is this a shrub you see here or in MI?
Posted: Oct-01-2004 at 8:34pm
This sounds like Pyracantha to me. OSU had a lot of them on campus, planted with Rhododendrons. The Women's Gym on campus had a wonderful stand of Rhodies and Pyrachanthas. The Rhodies provided a spectacular display of flowers in the spring, and the Pyrachanthas were gorgeous all winter with the brilliant orange-red berries and glossy leaves.
Posted: Oct-02-2004 at 9:38pm
Sorry, I know the pyra. this has larger berries and larger leaves. The berries on this are grape size and single, not a cluster. I was up close to one today and it has flowers like the size of a blueberry flower but smaller and in singles. So it has flowers and fruit on it now, the fruit is in different stages of ripness. The berries turn orangish and are not smooth skinned. I have not been able to find it, any ideas what resource to use to id this?
Posted: Oct-02-2004 at 11:36pm
Could it possibly be strawberry tree, Arbutus unedo?
Posted: Oct-04-2004 at 8:55pm
Lisa, thank you thank you thank you. Finaly I know what it is and now to go read about it
Posted: Oct-04-2004 at 8:57pm
Lisa, really I am so excited to finaly have a name. Is that funny or what? I have to know what a plant is, that is my thing and it really bugs me until I find out. That is a great resource you have there. Again many thanks
Posted: Oct-07-2004 at 10:44am
You're welcome, BakingBarb! These are lovely shrubs (can be trained into small trees). My boys' elementary school has these out front. They take very tough conditions and look lovely year-round. If you have limited space, look for the A. u. compacta.
Posted: Oct-07-2004 at 7:03pm
Lisa, I cannot figure if I have limited space or not?!
I know that sounds funny and so it is. The yard is really quite large I think for the city, although what is remaining of the neighborhood (new developments coming) is large lots and farm lots. We are just off of 99 in North Lynnwood and it suprises me with all the new HUGE houses that there are farm yards next door. I can explain also by saying that I have only been in this house since March and I live with my boyfriend. He really does not care what I do with the yard but since nothing was done before I am trying to be careful to not overwhelm him LOL
Posted: Nov-20-2004 at 10:11pm
I am trying to figure out another one now.....
It seems similar to the pyracntha in growth and has small leaves but the berry clusters are in smaller bunches and they are red. Lisa, I like the site you linked to but not sure how to find a shrub on there without knowing the name.
Posted: Nov-21-2004 at 10:25am
Barb and all--you also mentioned a tiny shrub with tiny fragrant flowers.
One of my favs is sarcococca, or himalayan sweet box...evergreen and very, very fragrant this time of year right thru winter. My cuttings were free but they have grown so slowly, finally this year they are starting to flower a bit, yipee!
Posted: Nov-22-2004 at 2:32pm
Some of these rose varieties sure produced large red fruit this year.
I am a bit fond of Elderberry too - reminded regularly by driving through the coast range.
Wintergreen is cute for a little plant.
Posted: Nov-22-2004 at 8:17pm
Glen I did plant a sarcococca at the recommandation of the dept head at a Home Depot garden dept. Mine is not flowering though.
MD, I am seeing wild roses/hips now when I drive for work.
It is quite frustrating to me to not be able to id a plant. This one has got me stumped but I was wondering if it is some type of ilex, similar to Ilex verticillata. It is not that as that is commonly called Michigan Holly which is where I moved from. IT was great to be able to find this plant in such abundance there. Hmmmm I am looking at the site from above where Lisa id'd the strawberry tree for me. I think it must be related to this type of holly. The berries are not glossy shiny red they are more dark though and in a pendulous cluster. I did see a large wild grouping of large shrub loaded with red berries/fruit, I would help myslef to some but too close to a busy road.
I am thinking that wintergreen is one I have to have. I also enjoy the elderberries, raintree has a few listed and they sure are pretty.
There is a small shrub, with white almost plumes of flowers-very feathery. I see it growing wild. It is not what I would call a woody shrub and I am almost wondering if it is like the knotweed in growth habit but only 1/4 as tall and non clumping. I just cannot figure out anyother way to describe the growth habit.
Posted: Nov-22-2004 at 9:03pm
Some of the beauty berry plants are standing out now.
If you need fragrance, harlequin glorybower gets metallic blue berrie.
I used to have an English holly with gold / yellow berries that was quite interesting.
Posted: Dec-01-2004 at 11:07am
One of the guests on this past Sunday's episode of "In the Garden with Mike Darcy," was Michael Shultz, a local landscape designer. They were at a stunning garden (scroll down) designed by him. Among the tips shared were to plant 3 beauty berries together (they looked like one shrub). The cross pollination from the multiple plants promoted lots of berries.
This means I need 2 more!
Posted: Dec-01-2004 at 12:22pm
Wow, those beauty berries are so gorgeous! Don't know if I have room for three? Thanks for posting, Lisa!
Posted: Dec-01-2004 at 1:02pm
According to information on the "In the Garden" website, all 3 are planted in the same hole, Jeanne. I don't know if 3 will grow wider than 1 but at least the footprint shouldn't be much larger.
Posted: Dec-01-2004 at 7:22pm
I planted one late summer and the little guy has about 4 berries. But tell ya what you have to get up close to see them LOL I wonder if next year I could plant one or two more right up next to it? Actually I was thinking of planting something that would contrast but not be any larger? No thoughts on what yet, suggestions welcome.
Posted: Dec-07-2004 at 1:26pm
For my job I am a delivery driver and I keep seeing this plant in Edmonds, I am wondering if it is an arrowwood viburnum. It is flowering and fruiting now and the it is evergreen. Does anyone have any experince with this paticular one?
Posted: Dec-07-2004 at 1:29pm
I am still trying to find the type of plant that is covered with the red berries now. I am thinking it is a type of holly but not the nasty pokey leaved one! I forgot how to link so I cannot show you the picture of the one I found.
Posted: Dec-07-2004 at 3:44pm
Hi Barb, the directions you want can be found in FAQ for using the Forum, under the thread title, Making Hyperlinks.
Regarding your shrub in question - small leaves, red berries in bunches - all hollies that I can think of with red berries aren't small-leaved, IMO, but I don't know if my definition of "small" is the same as yours.
Sweetbox, Sarcococca ruscifolia has red berries, although they can turn quite dark red, almost black. See the pictures at this link to see if this is close to what you are trying to ID. Scroll down halfway for the berry photo. btw, it seems this plant often gets confused with S. confusa at nurseries or in gardens. As far as I can tell, they are very similar in shape and habit, with perhaps only the berries being different (S. confusa are black).
Or maybe you are thinking of Pernettya mucronata?
A few more clues might help - how big is the shrub? Is it in sun or shade? Shape of shrub? Evergreen? Any other noticeable characteristics would help solve your plant mystery.
Posted: Dec-07-2004 at 8:33pm
Lisa, the sweetbox is very pretty. I planted one so pleased to know what it will look like. Is there more then one variety since I do not know what mine is exactly. Good point on leaf size. They are not small like the pernettya. I guess they are normal hollyleaf size. ALl of the ones I see are shrubs, now mind you I am whizzing by everytime I see them. Full sun btw
They are used some in landscaping and hedged/clipped but most I see are loosley growing. They grow upright then at the a certain height they droop outward. The berries are red and in clusters, hanging in groups, I wonder if it is the weight of the berries that makes it droop out.
The berry clusters are tight bunches and they are numerous. If you see one now you will know this is the plant as the berries are en masse. Oh and the berry size is about that of holly berries the color is deep red but very vibrant. I cannot get this plant off my mind. LOL
Posted: Dec-07-2004 at 8:41pm
Just saw a picture of davidi viburnum and it could have the purple berries too. I would like to have that one too wether it be the davidi or the arrowwod I don't know. I guess I would have to see them in flower and berry at a nursery to know. Which ever one it is, it is flowering and fruiting togethor. I am much more interested in getting the red berried on though. LOL
Posted: Dec-08-2004 at 9:40am
'Blue Boy' or 'Blue Princess' or a slant of those names for holly?
There are an awful lot of holly varieties - great guyly or not.
Posted: Dec-08-2004 at 10:19am
ROTFLOL, MD! I guess my boo-boo of "great guyly" is sure to live on forever here! Thanks for providing my morning laugh.
For most species of hollies the berries don't hang in bunches, they are spread along the stems at the base of leaves. But there might be some exceptions, such as lusterleaf holly, Ilex latifolia.
Other possibilities: Skimmia japonica (this is a shade plant but I see it planted in sun all too often. It never looks good).
Perhaps I'm not understanding your description clearly enough but, beyond the above possibilities, I'm completely drawing a blank regarding your hedge pruned shrub with red berries.
Posted: Dec-08-2004 at 12:40pm
Great links, Lisa.
BakingBarb, is the shrub you are wondering about Nandina Domestica?
I have several plants and they are very useful in the garden. The berries are particularly vibrant right now. The flowers are very nice too. The link above shows the leaf, berries and flowers. My nandinas do tend to lean over a bit also. I thought it was because they were getting too much shade. Although the new sprouts stand up straight.
Posted: Dec-08-2004 at 4:15pm
Jeanne, good idea to include nandina in the list of possibilities.
Okay, Barb, we're all waiting to hear if we're getting you any closer to discovering your mystery plant.
Posted: Dec-08-2004 at 6:32pm
Okay it is not the nandina, I was selling those before so at least I am familiar with that one! Very nice plant that I am thinking of adding also. This has leaves about the same size as a holly but it doesn't have the great guyly leaves though and no varigation. The shrub is verythick, as in many many stems and they grow upright until oh lets say about 4 ft and they droop outwards from the center. Although as I said I have also seen it pruned to a very small hedge (not nearly as nice as the natural ones).
Dang I wish I could figure this out. Where do I look on the net to find it?
Posted: Dec-08-2004 at 6:39pm
I did look at all the pictures and I don't think these are it. The stransvaesia is beautiful, I don't think I have seen that before. To be more clear I have seen it hedged but it is not as nice hedged and I don't want it hedged. In its natural growth habit it is very nice and vibrant. BakingBarb
Posted: Dec-08-2004 at 7:28pm
I am wondering if you are seeing Ardisia crenata or the japonica species or cultivars of either.
There is also Aucuba japonica that sounds like your description.
Or it could be this hedges Ilex (Holly) that is used for hedges, or Ilex rotunda could be it.
Hey drive-by plant-id is fun!
Posted: Dec-08-2004 at 7:52pm
Upon more searching I came up with Viburnum awabuki although I think the leaves here look more like laural leaves and may be too big.
Its funny how so many beautiful evergreen berry plants come from Japan.
Posted: Dec-08-2004 at 10:55pm
We may not be IDing Barb's plant but hoo boy, am I finding more plants I'd like for my garden!
I keep thinking that whatever you are seeing, Barb, has to be relatively common in both landscape use and at nurseries. But so far, every common plant I can think of doesn't seem to match.
Any chance that the next time you can stop to get a closer look?
LOL, Debbie! Drive-by plant ID sounds like something you'd hear on the news . . . tonight at 11pm on GardenNetwork, we'll report the latest frightening episode of drive-by plant IDing. The suspect, a member of a dioecious species, was female and distinctly lacked chlorophyll. The suspect's trunk was covered with a fine layer of indementum. The upper limbs ended in leaf-like structures, palmate in shape. Her apical dominant bud was apetelaous and pilose. If you see this suspect, please report her to the authorities. The plants are shaken and experienced slight defoliation but otherwise are recovering nicely. (I'm having way too much fun, what a nerd I am!)
Check our glossary for clues to our suspect in question.
hey, Deb, we don't have apical dominance in our glossary! Okay, go here for that glossary word.
Posted: Dec-08-2004 at 11:10pm
I thought it was too kinky for our family site!
Posted: Dec-09-2004 at 8:39am
LOL, too funny, Lisa. Drive-by plant iding!
Lots of great plants there! Barb, any of them look like your plant? I think you should stop and get a sample of the leaf and berries if you can.
Posted: Dec-09-2004 at 10:47am
Good Lord Lisa, was that just streaming consciousness or did it take you hours to think it all up????
I think I've seen the plant Barb's talking about because I was very taken with it and wanted to find out what it is too. I've seen it at the Mercer Island Park and Ride and the Overlake Park and Ride, if I remember to, I'll try to go take a picture this weekend. I haven't seen it up close because I've always been on the bus but of all the possible suspects you've listed the Ilex rotunda looks the closest to what I've seen. The berries have been very bright and profuse because they were quite visible and striking at 20 miles an hour!
Posted: Dec-09-2004 at 11:23am
I think it took me 15 minutes. I had the idea to make it silly but I had to look up a few words to make sure my glossary recall was accurate (good thing I did because it wasn't). I am more adept at technical writing than creative writing so whenever a creative idea sparks, I run with it and have fun. I usually have to work harder at creative writing, which I know is counterproductive but it takes more effort for me to tap into that side of my brain.
I can never remember. Is it right brain=logic, left brain=artistic or the other way around?
I hope someone is able to stop soon to get better plant clues. I'd love to know what it is.
Posted: Dec-09-2004 at 11:52am
No, us creative types are always in the right mind! The rest of you are just plain wrong! BTW, I call it scream of consciousness because mine is screaming to let it fly all the time. Good thing I don't share a lot of my writing!
Posted: Dec-09-2004 at 1:46pm
Debbie is correct. Left brain=logic, right brain=artistic. We're glad you share your writings with us, Deb!
Posted: Dec-11-2004 at 11:07am
I use the center of my brain the most. That's why I am logically artistic.
Posted: Dec-11-2004 at 5:05pm
LOL Thank you for the laughs.
I think the ilex is the closest. I did see it yesterday in a new spot, it was a suprise to me becasue this is another place I drive by everyday! It is in the shade of a tree and has other shrubs around it so it is growing upright and thin, very thin. So it does not like shade. see how sad it is!
That was very good Lisa, I love to read when other people do things like that. Makes me envious of the talent. This drive by encounter is leaving me frustrated!
I should take the digital camera with me and stop and get a shot. It will be real funny looking to the people that live their....picture this.....subaru parts delivery van pulls up to a house in the country, driver jumps out and what is she doing? taking a picture of the plants! Should I be thinking that I need to get a life!?!
Posted: Dec-11-2004 at 5:10pm
WOW I did not realize I was going to be posting a dang huge photo! Wow again! That probably would look like it if I stood across the room. That is the ilex rotunda. Hmmmmmmmm
Posted: Dec-11-2004 at 6:17pm
I may be going to Edmonds this week if you give me the streets they are on I can drive by and photograph them. I am brazen enough to do it!
Posted: Dec-11-2004 at 6:22pm
LOL MD. Now I use creative logic. I usually create something to make it appear logical.
Posted: Dec-12-2004 at 10:08am
Debbie, thanks and sorry about that. It was pretty wasn't it? I think I will take the camera with me to work next week. The one in Edmonds is the one with the blue berries. It is behind Edmonds Auto. Service at 218 Third Ave N Behind the shop is an alley with parking and it is in the parking area.
The one with the red berries is on a back street between Snohomoish and Monroe. A whole swath of em.
Posted: Dec-12-2004 at 12:24pm
Thanks, Debbie and Jeanne, for clarying the right brain/left brain issue. Left and logic start with L. Left brain=logic. Check, I won't forget again.
I'm glad you enjoyed my little creative attempt, Barb.
Posted: Dec-14-2004 at 10:14pm
Wow Lisa don't I feel smart I thought left brain was the creative side?!?! SO that must mean I do not use my left brain enough but hey if I lost out on the left where they hey is my creative right brain!
Posted: Dec-17-2004 at 6:11pm
This has got to be it! Ok I know I should be patient and wait for more information from you but, I saw it in yesterdays Seattle PI and thought that looks like what she has described.
So for pic: Montrovia
For the story: Seattle PI
Full sun, well drained soil and 10 feet tall but can be pruned.
Posted: Dec-17-2004 at 6:35pm
So left =
And right =
LOL hmm do I use either brain! LOL
Anyhow that pyra is beautiful. So now it is a toss up between the two plants the pyra you linked to or the ilex (was it rotunda?). Maybe I just need the both!
Posted: Dec-20-2004 at 7:59am
Wow, the pyracantha is a beauty! Good call, Debbie!
Posted: Jan-25-2005 at 7:51pm
You will never guess what I saw at a stop at the local Top grocery!!!!
Posted: Jan-25-2005 at 10:12pm
Are you saying that you finally identified your mystery plant? That would be great if we finally got the answer!
I didn't know that Stranvaesia davidiana was aka Photinia davidiana. Wonder when that name change happened.
Posted: Jan-26-2005 at 5:14pm
Lisa the picture is not exactly as it looks like growing in a pot or in the ground. That is like a close up and not how you see it when walking up to it or driving by! LOL It was amazing I stopped at this store in the town of Snohomish and I saw this plant off to the side and I could tell all the way out in the parking lot that it was it! YIPPPPPEEEEEE
At the store it was the prostrate one. Which explains the upright to 6 ft or so and then drooping over. I am excited to know what it is now. I am a little confused though, photinia? I picture this
Posted: Jan-26-2005 at 5:16pm
Oh and I think it has more appeal from not looking at it so close up like in the pictures!
Posted: Jan-26-2005 at 5:22pm
Same genus, different species. It's all because of the group of botanists who get together and mull over new plant info and decide to move a plant from one genus to another. For example, Mahonia aquifolium is now known as Berberis aquifolium (although it is still more accepted as Mahonia). With today's technology, they get down to genetic differences that are not discernable to the eye. I forget what this group is called but they have been the bane of my existance at times. Just when I know the name of a plant, they change it . . . dang it! Gardening in Sunset Zone 6, USDA Zone 8.