Winter Greens and Pungent Bulbs
Forum Archives
Lisa A
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Jan-20-2005 at 2:10pm I love fresh produce from the garden but so far, I've been nothing more than a mooch, eating friends' edible profits. They must not mind too much since they give me more than just zucchini! LOL I have good intentions each year but so far I haven't managed to get my act in gear in time to grow my own.
But there's hope for me yet! In today's Oregonian's Homes and Gardens of the Northwest, 4 local gardeners share their tips for growing in the winter. The methods used range from low-tech and low cost to more complex and expensive.
I love Sandra Galli's tip to use floating row covers to shelter lettuce, spinach, kale and chard. This would be an easier way for me to get started than by constructing a hoop house. Does anyone use floating row covers to grow winter veggies?
In case I still hesitate, the article tip to make the winter garden only 1/3 to 1/4 the size of your summer garden should help start me growing. Small steps are the best steps when starting something new. Who knows? Maybe someday I'll even have a greenhouse to grow veggies in during the winter.
Read the article here - Frost Fresh
The Oregonian's Vern Nelson lives up to his moniker, the Hungry Gardener. Today, his column was all about The subtle shallot, a onion family member. I love using shallots in cooking. I roast them with potatoes, carrots, a little olive oil, rosemary and dried thyme (not powder) for a yummy winter veggie dish. Roasting makes the shallots even more mildly flavored. I also like to mince them and mix them with balsamic vinegar, butter, lemon zest and thyme to drizzle over roasted asparagus. Uh, oh, I'm making myself hungry! Pardon me while I head to the kitchen . . .
gary
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Jan-21-2005 at 7:47am
Lisa,
I have not used row covers as floaters but with wire hoops to support. I think that much would depend upon how windy your site gets. My most successful cover (for me) has been the Gro-Therm product that TSC sells. It is see-thru clear with holes for ventilation and rain. With the hoops, it easily supports a night time extra layer if the temps get too low (20°F). The holes also self vent in sunlight and hold the temp to no more than 12-15 degrees warmer than the ambient air in the sunshine. (Much easier management for those who are at work if the sun comes out.)
Do be prepared to increase your space though. As Solomon has said, 50% of the ground gives one more choices in crops and quantities. Especially since you must increase your spacing of crops for light and moisture/desease control needs. I use 1/3 for just the fall/winter/OW coles (no cover needed here). Another 1/6 for fall/winter/spring greens. The final 1/6 for roots, leeks, celery, chard, parsley remnants from the spring/summer beds.
And that doesn't count 1/6th sown with next summer's garlic and the cover cropped bed for the 2007 garlic. That puts cover crops on the rest getting ready for the next season's plantings (mostly their 3 yr. turn with late coles).
In his Kitsap Sun column last Saturday, Chris Smith self graded his first efforts. You can read it at:
Growing Winter Salads for the first time
Gary
gary
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Jan-21-2005 at 8:40am
I should have mentioned above the Thur WA Post column of Barbara Damrosch, What in Store.
She covers mostly the roots and their classic storage cellars - both simple and complex. With a link from the 'Root Celler Cap of the World'. You can view that at:
Root Cellar Capital
You can read the full article at:
What's In Store
Gary
Lisa A
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Jan-21-2005 at 9:29am
Great information, Gary, thanks!
I've never heard of Gro-therm but it sounds like an ideal product. Is it available only through TSC? Do you get more than 1 season's use from it?
gary
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Jan-21-2005 at 11:05am
Lisa,
I have not seen GroTherm elsewhere but Johnny's and others have similar perforated plastic products. Yes, I do get more than one season from it. It is also helpful with the first weeks of tomatoes, melons, and other warm season plants in our usual May/June weather.
I have recently used a weighted pvc base with flexible water pipe hoops to support it. The Grotherm is held to frame with hoop clamps. It makes lifting to harvest in the winter or water in the spring very easy. A couple pieces of firewood prop up the southside in warm weather just like a cold frame lid.
We can not discuss winter vegetables without mentioning our site colleague Trav's Vegetable Garden Timetable and Winter Vegetable Gardening articles both of which you can find on his Quick Looks page at:
Trav's Quick Looks
Had Chris followed at Trav's great sowing schedules, he would have gotten better grades on his first tries. If I recall correctly, Trav has more years of winter experience than all but one of the Oregonian interviews above. His timing gives a good reference for WA gardens vs. the TSC and other timings.
One should also remember the advice of Eliot Coleman, 'Grow vegetables that like the cold. Do not fight the cold with heat and triple glazing. Winter light levels are low enough as it is.'
One other little mentioned piece of year round vegetable advice is to use mostly transplants. Cole transplants can wait for the peas, early lettuce, etc. to be harvested, or even sown between the rows as the harvest is continuing. (Or lettuce plants and cole plants into the same bed in early July. Coles on a 2x2 grid with the lettuce in between. You'll have the lettuce gone before the coles get too big.)The 4-6 weeks between sowing and planting can greatly increase your usable garden space.
Speaking of using transplants, I had great success this year with using 'planters paper' (see TSC and Johnny's) in some of my cole beds. It lasted longer than the 6-8 weeks claimed (shade from the transplanted crop?). In fact from the early July placement of the Brussels sprouts transplants, the paper out lasted all summer/fall weed germination and the bed is now virtually BARE below the plants though there are only a few scraps of paper visible. The comparison with the sown OW coles and roots bed is amazing. I'll be buying a lot more than a 4'x50' piece this year.
(It should also add some years to my T-Tape drip system.)
Gary
Lisa A
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Jan-21-2005 at 11:24am
Thanks, again, for all the useful information, Gary.
What does OW mean? Over Winter?
John
Location: Puget Sound corridor
Posted: Jan-22-2005 at 7:38am
Oregonian's Vern Nelson “The Subtle Shallot” was very good and shallots do lose some flavor in long storage. But I think if they are left in the ground over winter until needed, you would have, in effect, fall planted shallots which will sprout and lot more flavor would be lost. You would have a clump of very short scallions.
gary
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Jan-23-2005 at 5:10pm
I think I agree with John on this. Cool dry storage is the advice for all alliums. My NOW 54F soil can not fit either of those two. The soil is warm enough to germinate cool tolerante corn and beans though you don't want to do that here. If I had 54F soil in Chicago, it would be time to plant but they do not get that until May(?).
In fact, I still have some potatoes out there under tarps and I should probalby dig them this week because they strt to sprout at these temps.
Gary
bakingbarb
Location: Washington, Western
Posted: Jan-26-2005 at 5:21pm
I really appreciate you putting this info about shallots here. In Mi I grew them overwinter and would have done so here too if you had not told me this. I was planning on planting them next fall, now it will have to be the following spring. My garden beds are just too new and not in good enough shape for me to go out there and plant early
Oh but winter lettuce and spinach sure do sound good.
~BakingBarb
John
Location: Puget Sound corridor
Posted: Jan-28-2005 at 9:39am
Barb
We may have a little misunderstanding, I think,in this neck of the woods, like your former home, it is best to plant your shallots and garlic in the fall. Consider it the first rising of the dough. They develop a much stronger root system and as a consequence somewhat lager size and better taste.
bakingbarb
Location: Washington, Western
Posted: Feb-03-2005 at 5:10pm
Okay John I am confused so I do plant my shallots in the fall after all? Well that works.
~BakingBarb
John
Location: Puget Sound corridor
Posted: Feb-04-2005 at 10:28am
Barb
I have not tried seed shallots and I am unfamiliar with their planting regimen, however, to get the best yield in western Washington, shallot bulbs should be planted in the fall. I shoot for mid-October, and I plant three varieties, Grey, Brittany Red, Dutch Yellow. Although its relatively small and sometimes difficult to peel because of its tough outer skin, Grey is my favorite. Unfortunately, its not a great keeper and it starts to turn around the first of January. Brittany will last a couple of months longer and the Dutch will almost take me through summer.
gary
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Feb-04-2005 at 5:20pm
John & Barb,
I am holding in my hand a still firm shallot bulb that is almost tennis ball size. I got it from a Oly Farmers' Mardet vendor, Rising River Farms. It was grown from seed last year and I bought it in Dec. -- maybe 4-5 months after harvest. I think that Jim & Jenn are still growing Ambition (see TSC catalog).
Whether it is that or Bonila, I (and others) have used these varities at least into late spring storage. Only Copra onions will out last them. Both the two choices above are grown from seed started in late winter (Jan/Mar). Two years ago I (& friends) got some transplants from Jenn that had been sown about March 1st. Last year we planted Bonila transplants from another vendor who had sown them about 2/1.
We do not have 'storage' times for more than a year yet but early Feb is certainly much better than what the TSC catalog says.
Jenn's 2003 seedlings were grown in a plastic hoop house and the 2004 vendor (Scatter Creek Nursery) were grown under a NO-wall metal roofed shed where they can get some sunshine.
In all cases, my 6-hour sunlight garden tells me that it is better on all these 'spring plant/summer harvest' onion family crops to plant them in the most sunlight you have. For me that might mean in friends' yards or buying them from Rising River or other Oly vendors in the fall.
In my low sun yard, my best onion family crops are garlic and leeks which have the advantage of almost 12 months to harvests.
If you have plenty of sun hours, start some shallot & onion seeds now. I do think that it is the sun that counts so I would place the plants in 'west/early' sunlite side of the yard and use the east/late/warm sun side of your yard for tomatoes, melons, etc.
That reminds me of another topic; siting your vegetable beds according to their sun/heat/shade needs. Maybe I'll do that one before or after my corn growing TOTW next month.
Gary
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