Weed Control Options for a Large Garden
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DanH
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Feb-28-2005 at 4:28pm
Hello folks! Please forgive me if this has been posted a good number of times (and I'm sure it has been), but I really need your help with weed-control options for my backyard vegetable garden.
We grow, or try to grow, basically everything. I'm in Lynnwood, and just beyond my fence is a heavily wooded area, and try as I might, weeds have been more than just a nuisance for my gardening efforts.
To date, we've simply tilled and planted our large patch of yard for the garden and have trusted to hand weeding to keep everything neat. This fails within weeks because we just don't have that much time every day to weed.
I've heard various recommendations to lay down plastic, lay down newspaper, lay down mulch, lay down wood chips, etc., to deprive light from the soil surrounding our starts... and we've heard counter arguments to them all.
So I'm basically at a loss. I have a nice well-prepared area to garden in, but if the weeds are going to be the collossal problem they have been, I'm ready to scatter wildflower seeds and call it good. I'd rather not do that!
I have about a 30' by 50' patch here in Lynnwood that I want to plant with everything, which I'll plant with store-bought starts or starts from my cold frame.
What can I do that will help minimize weed growth, short of chemical poisons, hiring a gardner, or laying down a tarp that I cut X's in to plant my starts in?!
Thanks folks!!
Dan
Susie
Location: Washington, Southwestern
Posted: Feb-28-2005 at 9:25pm
Hi Dan,
If you're going to use starts from the store, and not seeds, I recommend corn glutten to suppress weeds. You should be able to buy a 50 lb bag for about $20.00 at a feed store. It's a powder made from corn, is non-toxic and pretty organic stuff, it even adds some nitrogen to the soil. You mix it into the top 3 inches of soil and it keeps seeds from establishing. 50 lbs should last you two or more years.
Of course, you'll have to get rid of the existing, already spouted, weeds first. The corn glutten only works on seeds.
I've used black plastic and I've used newspaper to kill off weeds that are already growing and they both work. (Use the mulch or wood chips on top of either of those to keep them from blowing away in the wind.) Round-up is a good choice too, once. I wouldn't use it more than that since the weeds can develop an immunity to it (from what I've read,) and because it's not especially very good for the environment. I'd also not use it at all in a delicate situation such as near a watershed.
The good news is that the first year is the worst. Once you get a handle on the weeds, each year will be easier.
Good luck!
Wanda
Location: Puget Sound corridor
Posted: Mar-01-2005 at 12:16pm
Well, I can't recommend using Roundup. Especially around vegetables. There is so much research that still needs to be done, why chance it with food crops?
I wish I could give you some real help but I think you've already mentioned a lot of the schemes people use. Are you planting thickly? In other words, if you are using a wide row method with narrow paths there won't be much room for weeds to grow. And any unnecessary tilling will just plant more weed seeds so don't till your paths or areas that you aren't going to plant for awhile. And make sure any compost you use is really well-composted (weed seeds killed).
Other than that, the only advice I can give you is the old saying about the "shadow of the gardener". The best weed control, the best fertilizer, the best pest control is just the shadow of the gardener. Instead of looking at it as weeding, maybe you can change your focus to think of it as communicating with your garden or relieving stress from the commute or taking out frustrations. I don't know. Maybe you have too big of a garden area. Maybe it would be best to only bite off as much as you can chew and leave the rest with a cover crop. Be careful of wildflower seeds, though - many of them are just plain weed seeds.
Good luck and let us know what works best for you.
-Wanda
gary
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Mar-01-2005 at 4:32pm
Dan,
The book I will continue to recommend until I can't type anymore is Lee Riech's, Weedless Gardening. He runs us through all of the options and even deals somewhat with soil/weather condition variations. And he picks options no matter what you are growing (fruit trees to tomatoes to wildflower meadows).
At $8.95 (list), this may be your best garden book buy. To save some shipping costs add his great The Pruning Book and you'll get both from for about $25.
As far as I know both are at the "Bookshelf" on this site so our lovely 'monitors' can get some "Amazon partner" kickbacks for putting up with all of us.
Gary
DanH
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Mar-01-2005 at 5:23pm
Thank you folks! I'm tentatively settling on mulching the whole darn garden to deprive it of light -- this is a key thing I didn't do the last few times. However, that's notwithstanding anything I may find in the book Gary recommended. Thanks!
bakingbarb
Location: Washington, Western
Posted: Mar-01-2005 at 5:35pm
Gary, in past I have used newspaper with mulch on top. Grass clippings worked real well for me,of course the argument will be that it can have weed seeds in it but the grass clippings get so hot that is not an issue. Plus I was putting on top of newspaper (water it so it stays put!). One thing though I never had a problem with was the hot grass burning my plants, which has also been an argument against. I saw Victory Garden uses grass clipping arounds vegtables and no problems.
I live in Lynnwood too and this is my gardens second season and the weeds are loving it. My previous garden was in Mi and I had gotten the weeds under control quite well with the above mentioned. Good luck with it.
~BakingBarb
gary
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Mar-02-2005 at 10:03am
BakingBarb,
Weedless Gardening recommends newspapers as the first step to converting an area to garden. He uses paper to kill off grass/weeds for a vegetable garden. Then he layers compost/manure to build raised beds for the vege's and mulch materials for the paths.
His major point is to layer the buildups and till as little as possible to avoid bringing up weed seeds. He even uses winter-killed cover crops so he can plant no-till in the spring. We don't have many options to do that with here becasue we don't get the MI cold.
Which brings up another point that you are learning in your move. Welcome to the fall/winter/spring/summer families of maritime PNW weeds. We've got them for you anytime of year.
After a successful trial last year on my fall/winter coles, I got enough "planters paper" to use it on all my beds. As I said in another post, the Brussels sprout bed transplanted thru the 'paper' on July 2nd is virtually clear of weeds now. The same can be said of the cabbage and the kale/collards beds.
The OW Cauli/sprouting Broc bed sown a few weeks later (w/o paper) is full of weeds. I need to control soon (ed. Why not in the past 8 months).
I prefer to use transplants most of the time so I'll be using the paper. I'm even going to sow beets/carrots/beans thru slits in the paper. Before you ask about them, I have used the red/green plastic mulches for my tomatoes and melon/squash beds.
All of this works well over my drip irrigation system. The paper will transmit OH watering but it might decay sooner. Both Territorial and Johnny's sell biodegradable paper mulches.
Biodegradable paper mulch from Johnny's
Planter's paper from Territorial
Gary
bakingbarb
Location: Washington, Western
Posted: Mar-02-2005 at 7:00pm
Gary, I did not realize you could buy paper that way. I was thinking that where I work there is a ton of cardboard boxes and also some lighter weight cardboard "paper", anyhow I was thinking I might use that. The leaf mulch I have on the garden, hell the weeds are poking up real well. I figure they will pull easier though. Anyhow (srry disjointed and long sentence) I was going to use the cardboard and the leaf mulch to border the plant rows. Maybe this next winter I will use a cover crop. Do you think the green plastic really helps? I would like to grow a melon, sweetie no 6 from Johnny's and I wondered if it would be hot enough here. The description says sutiable to short seasons so we will see.
~BakingBarb
gary
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Mar-03-2005 at 3:31am
BakingBarb,
Long sentences? You must not read (or can't) read much of my writing. Planters paper is designed to sit on the surface. Lee Reich talks of using as little as 4 layers of newspaper (no color inks) to kill with a mulch on top in the paths and perennial beds. He does mow as low as possible before laying the paper (with some watering).
Your paper would give more time in the paths before it would decay. Lee would not water the paths and renew the mulch materials if needed. To quote from his first chapter:
The bare bones of Weedless Gardening, elaborated on in coming chapters, have four components.
1. MINIMIZE SOIL DISRUPTION to preservce the soil's natural layering. Soil should not be turned over by hand, my rototiller, or by plow. Even when setting transplants, shrubs, and trees in the ground, take care not to disrupt the natural layering of the soil any more than necessary.
2. PROTECT THE SOIL SURFACE with some sort of covering to temper the effects of hot sun and raindrops on the surface and to smother small weed seedlings. What to use depends on the availability of various materials, your style of garden, and the kinds of plants you grow. In some situations, living plants might offer the needed protection.
3. AVOID SOIL COMPACTION by keeping off planted areas with feet, wheelbarrows, garden carts, and tractors. This is done by designating separate areas for plants and for traffic. The design of trafficed areas (usually paths) varies with the design of the garden and the kind of traffic espected.
4. USE DRIP IRRIGATION. Watering is not always needed, but when it is required regularly, drip is the way to go. Drip irrigation quenches plants' thirst at a rate close to their actual needs. It pinpoints the water where it's needed, instead of wastefully wetting paths and weeds in unplanted areas.
Again, Weedless Gardening is a $9 book by a guy with a great deal of knowledge (Ph.D, USDA and Cornell U.) that is a good enough writer to do columns for AP. (And he even has Dan's wildflower meadow covered.)
On the melon plants, I want to modify the climate as much as possible for them. In Western WA, I think that means plastic on the soil (& above) in raised beds to warm it. If you have sandy soil, you can get by but your crop will be later. I'd start with the Territorial choices first and then try the Johnny's as learn what you like and what works. (Remember that summer's in Maine have 10F warmer nights.)
As usual Trav has a great article on melons. You can read it at:
Northwest Melon Culture
JeanneK
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Mar-03-2005 at 8:00am
Thanks for the exerpt on Lee's book, Gary. I have been following the basic concepts but it would be good to read the book in it's entirety.
Jeanne
gary
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Mar-03-2005 at 12:05pm
Let me also reinforce the recommendation above on Reich's The Pruning Book. Short of having MD on your shoulder with his example photos, it is the best 'all plants' book I have seen on pruning.
Like MD, Lee uses a large quantity of photos in addition to the normal drawings to demostrate his points.
Gary
bakingbarb
Location: Washington, Western
Posted: Mar-03-2005 at 6:57pm
Gary all I can say is thank you, excellent information.
Yes you are right I do not read much. It is not something I would like to admit. Somewhere along the way I have lost the pleasure of reading. I think I have to force myself to set time aside and only read during such time. I do "read" through my field guides, birds and wildflowers for now. Hmmmmm it is odd as I always used to read.
~BakingBarb
cjmiller
Location: Oregon, Willamette Valley
Posted: Mar-08-2005 at 12:32pm
Ruth Stout, a gardener in the '70's recommended using 5 layers of newspaper covered with about 4 to 6 inches of straw between the rows in the garden. I have sucessufully cut that down to 3 layers of newpaper and 4 inches of straw and each spring you can tell were the edges of the newspaper wern't touching--oops, a weed!--a secondary reward for the tedious job. Part of the rational is that the newsprint kills weeds???,and the straw does add tilth to the soil. I also found that if you request straw from Oregon commercial grass growers, you will have less weed seed, and stray grass seeds dont produce the invasive type of root system. Oh yes, always put the drip irrigation hose lines under the paper and straw to conserves moisture.
Carol
gary
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Mar-08-2005 at 1:25pm
CJ,
Some are old enought to remember her first book, How to Have a Green Thumb Without an Aching Back, published in 1955. Lee Reich's book (above) mentions two conditions that allowed Stout's method to work very well for her. She started with 25 bales of hay on a 50'x50' garden or one bale for every 100 sq. ft. and she planted right into the hay layer.
Why did it work so well for her? If you have sandy soil that won't pack down as you tromp all over it year after year, and if there are no stumbling blocks to getting bales and bales of hay into your garden each year, or if you have, as Ruth did, a hayfield and someone to cut it right next door.
When you mention straw you must remember the pesticide that has been found in the wheat straw and has destroyed the use of Seattle ZooDoo and many compost processors products recently.
I have found the easiest way to handle the seeds in the straw is to buy bales a year early, let them get wet in the winter, germinate weeds, and then let the summer dry kill the weeds before you use the straw for mulch in the fall.
This what I do each fall to mulch my garlic, rhubarb, and asparagus beds. But I have sandy soil.
I still feel that defined beds and paths is the best way to control the weeds. You can renew the mulch on the paths as required and layering the beds without tilling keeps the weed seeds below the 'germination' layer of the soil.
Gary
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