Not Companions!
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cjmiller
Location: Oregon, Willamette Valley
Posted: Jun-25-2004 at 12:45pm
Corn and tomatoes are not companions according to the companion planting list, and I have corn planted 8 feet from my tomato row. Does anybody know what it is that makes them enemies? Is it the pollen or vital essence or aura? Does anybody know if there is something to do to disrupt this "dreadful" occurance. Would planting a row of sunflowers between them or taking out the last row of corn help?--then there would be 11 feet between them. Oh, woe is me!
Carol
tommyb
Location: Oregon, Willamette Valley
Posted: Jun-25-2004 at 1:42pm
Hi Carol,
I have always companion planted veggies when I could, but never considered that there might be un-neighborly veggies. Very interesting. In my normal googly way I googled, and this looks like a good place to find a variety of information: Companion planting. I hope this helps rather than adds to your concern!
What really interests me is that before finding that web site I found several which did not list corn and tomatoes as bad companions. And the Ames site lists tomatoes as companions for corn.
I'm going to vote on the anti-moving side because if all rules of gardening are followed we probably couldn't garden at all. And I'm lazy.
Tom
cjmiller
Location: Oregon, Willamette Valley
Posted: Jun-25-2004 at 4:52pm
My list comes from a calendar published in 1980 by a Barbara Howser Daniels in Lebanon, Or. A calendar provides a guide of of what-to-do this month stuff and journal for the gardener. The reason I became a believer is that I planted garlic in the strawberry bed, and the strawberries grew big plants, but produced no berries, and the garlic was always pitiful. then I saw the list and the combo was mentioned as enemies. I looked at the companion planting site, Wow " Who Knew?" all that information was out there! I agree with your assessment. It will either work or it won't, right? and then there is next year for corrections! I looked back over my records of garden plans for rotation purposes and havent planted corn and tomatoes next to one another--guess the height of the corn probably was a factor in planning but this year we changed the dimentions of the garden and this was the result. So, We shall see, and thanks for the tip on the use of Google. It came in handy when I was looking for verticillium wilt resistant plants, but didnt think of companion/enemy planting.
Carol
John
Location: Puget Sound corridor
Posted: Jun-25-2004 at 5:53pm
CORN:
PLANTS TO AVOID - tomatoes attract corn earworm.
PLANTS THAT PROTECT AND/OR IMPROVE GROWTH - odorless marigold & white geranium deter Japanese beetles; pigweed draws up nutrients from subsoil.
PLANTS THAT ARE MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL - beans, cucumbers, melon, parsley, pea, potato, pumpkin, squash.
TOMATOES:
PLANTS TO AVOID - corn (earworm); potato (blight); kohlrabi (stunts growth).
PLANTS THAT PROTECT AND/OR IMPROVE GROWTH - basil, bee balm, borage improve growth & flavor; French marigolds deter nematodes.
PLANTS THAT ARE MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL - asparagus, carrot, celery, cucumbers, onion, parsley, pepper.
jab
tommyb
Location: Oregon, Willamette Valley
Posted: Jun-25-2004 at 8:22pm
Carol, you got exactly my meaning. If what John gave us is valid (thanks John!) you may find more corn earworm, but my memory says the loss may not be significant with a little vegetable oil in the silks. But my memory is suspect.
I didn't try all 64 of the pages, some I tried were not working, but the gist of what I found follows a typical pattern: problems that are proven are almost always easy to find and match each other; problems which are iffy have conflicting information. Give things a try, America has lots of corn to sell!
About Google: I have learned that what you enter in your search is very important in what will pop up, so I always try several combinations and variations on what I'm looking for---even mis-spellings (sometimes on purpose). Since the search engine is sorting literally billions of combinations, and new pages are created hourly, what shows up can vary wildly. Try entering your name, might surprise you.
good googlin' and good growin',
Tom
cjmiller
Location: Oregon, Willamette Valley
Posted: Jun-26-2004 at 12:13pm
Wow! What a GREAT Site!!! So, now I have nice warm and fussy feelings for your responses, Tommy and John, Thanks. I have had corn ear worm before (not personally!), and I just flick the greedy chompers off the corn and say nothing to any one! You say oil in the silk? That seems simple enough! will try it.
Carol
gary
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Jun-26-2004 at 4:32pm
Carol,
Even in the largest commercial field here in Olympia, we almost never get corn ear worm (CEW) or its tomato equivelent. If you are not NW of Eugene near Lone Pine Farms and those other local market farms, I would not be too concerned. That said, this summer may be different. If this warm weather continues, all of us (even up north here) could have two+ life cycles of CEW in our areas.
If you (or a neighbor) have not grown 10+ acres of corn for the last some years, I would not worry. If you have, then one or two simple sprays of the organic BT will handle all (look for brown moths at dusk near the corn to determine your need to spray). If all the acreage numbers are much larger than your yard or area, just use Ciscoe's method. Just place the worm between forefinger and thumb and EXTERMINATE!
Before you decide that corn or tomatoes have toooooooooooo many pests, take a look this one from southern OR, CA, and warmer regions.
Tomato Horn Worm
The length of that ugly green thing can be 4". I have friends that stopped growing tomatoes in the SF Bay area decades ago until I convinced them that these "vine crawling slugs" did not exist here>
Things could be worse!
Gary
John
Location: Puget Sound corridor
Posted: Jun-27-2004 at 8:48am
Even though I have the chart, as a backyard urban cultivator, I do not have the space to account for all the friend foe relationships. My original plan was to have three 10’X20’ plots with a 2' path between. Then I planted artichokes now each of the 10’X20’ bump into each other.
The best I can do is give a three year same area separation and hope that my plants do not antagonize each other to much and don’t attract critters that can’t be controlled by the heel of my boot.
Currently my creepy-crawly invasion consists of the normal slugs, ants, aphids and the like. Although I had a little green worm parachute in on an invisible thread, landed softly and started out for my greenery, but before I could study it my foot reacted. Since then I have found two little green worms munching in onion leaves. Haven’t a clue what they were, till these recent sightings the only green worms I had seen were in the beak of a chickadee bringing sustenance to its offspring. It also seems that I have more wasps around the garden this year they are fairly efficient predators so there may be more there.
jab
trav
Location: Washington, Western
Posted: Jun-27-2004 at 10:25am
I just squirt a little Bt into the corn silks to deter earworms. I have seen them, on occasion, in late crops (like September). I've also on rare occasions seen armyworms (ominous name for a simple little caterpillar). I think Gary is spot-on regarding what it takes for these beasties to get up here.
Matter of fact, I've seen a grand total of TWO hornworms in my garden over the 14 years I've lived here in Sumner. They are intimidating visually just due to sheer size - I mean they're as big as a lot of slugs! But they are harmless to you, really. The first time I ever saw one it took me a while to pick it up:
Travis
trav
Location: Washington, Western
Posted: Jun-27-2004 at 10:45am
Originally posted by John
Even though I have the chart, as a backyard urban cultivator, I do not have the space to account for all the friend foe relationships.
I think it's worth noting that "companion planting" is being used in a very broad manner in this thread, and not just in the traditional use of the term.
Personally I'm not a believer in the idea that some plants are good for other plants for vague aethereal reasons. FYI Steve Solomon (founder of Territorial Seed) wrote that he did numerous plantings where he hoped to scientifically measure the benefits of the traditional "friendly" plant pairings that are commonly mentioned, but failed to see any indication of this actually working.
It's a lot easier to believe in allelopathic relationships - where one plant causes harm to another. Also using plants as "lures" to either draw predators in, or to attract pests away from your real crops, is widely accepted. But this is not really companion planting.
I think the "friend foe" relationships that are pest-based are worth thought. This also isn't considered traditional companion planting though. Heck, a lot of it is really just good practice in crop rotation.
Travis
gary
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Jun-27-2004 at 2:02pm
I could not agree more with Travis. My personal cycle is not to plant the same vege family in the same bed for three years or at least two since overwintered coles require so much of my square footage.
Just like other areas of the country are not bothered much by root maggot because frost beyond the few inches we have here kills the fly larva, I am not worried about any of these 'companion' issues.
As I mentioned above without enough emphasis perhaps, tomato horn worm for sure and corn ear worm just do not seem to be a problem especially north of Portland. I believe that any problem south of there is more associated with the density of your agricultural neighbors than any 'companion' planting.
Trav did not mention the one influence that Solomon and I (we?) have found here; legumes and onions. Both of these are in my "A" bed of my abc rotation cycle so I just make sure that they are not in the same bed.
Maybe, after I finally finish my TOTW on irrigation, vegetable family rotation could be next.
Gary
cjmiller
Location: Oregon, Willamette Valley
Posted: Jun-27-2004 at 6:21pm
Thanks for all of your helpful information. I am not totally committed to companion planting as you already have guessed, But then, I also buy Ed Humes Garden Almanac--gardening by moon signs, The reality is that time, convenience, weather and my aching back tend to influence when the seeds get planted. That tomato horn worm is quite a big boy, I have only seen a live specimin once, and he went into a jar. I think he died of neglect or disection, depending on my son. I never admit to squishing corn ear worms with my fingers; or looking the other way when my cat finds a hungry and probably viscious baby rabbit; stomping slugs, or pointing at crows and yelling "ka-bang", either! I received lots of confirmation from you all.
Thanks, Carol

Gardening for the Homebrewer: Grow and Process Plants for Making Beer, Wine, Gruit, Cider, Perry, and More
By co-authors Debbie Teashon (Rainy Side Gardeners) and Wendy Tweton