Gravel Paths
Forum Archives
elfin
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Jul-25-2007 at 3:48pm
Hi everyone... I hear this is a great forum and I'm going to dive right in with a question!
I garden on over an acre, forested, and have a large area laid out in paths which I am ready to fill in with gravel. I know that the typical gravel size of choice is quarter minus, but I'm finding that with the large space of my garden and all the fir/pine needles I have that the areas I've already done in quarter minus just haven't held up all that well... the very small bits of gravel are just getting buried. I would like something a little more coarse that fir and pine needles will fall thru rather than gather on top of (raking is fruitless!).
So, I'm thinking about trying a larger size gravel. I am doing about 2000 square feet of the stuff, so I don't want to make a mistake I'll regret. But my driveway looks pretty good with its coarse gravel, in comparison to the quarter minus paths I've done... which look messy.
Other than gravel migrating to the lawn areas and getting under the lawnmower, are there other drawbacks of using larger gravel I might not be taking into account? Any size recommendations? Or... maybe I should stick with the quarter minus, and find a way to maintain it... I am open to those ideas as well.
Thanks for letting me join! I look forward to your input...
JeanneK
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Jul-25-2007 at 7:25pm
Welcome to Rainyside, Elfin!
I had one path in small round pebbles and I can tell you that fir needles still collected in between the pebbles. Hopefully someone can advise you on what the best size is. I have heard that if properly prepared, meaning well-draining that decomposed granite firms up quite nicely and you can blow off the needles.
Good luck!
Jeanne
tommyb
Location: Oregon, Willamette Valley
Posted: Jul-26-2007 at 6:44am Gravel areas are one of my challenges too, elfin. My "utility" area has a eight inch layer of 3/4 minus which doesn't drain well (it's compacted from truck traffic and heavy feet) and which grows great weeds. I believe the "minus" products are meant for compaction for foundations and paving. If the "crunch, crunch" footstep music is your desire, crushed rock is better than any "minus" product, IMHO. And if your driveway looks good, the paths would match and "that's a good thing".
My only "path" has a two to three inch layer of 1/4 to 1/2 inch crushed rock---no "fines". It drains well and doesn't have nearly the weed growth the compacted area does. My experience is that if good drainage is desired use crushed rock with no fine material, but I'd love some expert knowledge.
I have lived with decomposed granite, not hauled in but rather as the native soil, and raking or blowing would remove your needle crop quite nicely once the granite is compacted. I even had pink granite available, nice stuff. Now if there is no crushed granite available in your area, well, never mind.
If needle drop is an ongoing struggle, maybe you could change your path design to incorporate the needles into the path by using bark or wood chips. Kind of a "you got lemons, make lemonade". I never said I wasn't lazy.
Where are you located, BTW, if you have enough rain you could use sand...
Tom
Annie
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Jul-26-2007 at 3:47pm
Hi Elfin,
We have gravel and bark paths depending on where they are located.
We have paths around the house using 5/8 minus. I really like that BECAUSE there are no big evergreens in this area. We put down good fabric screen --Costco has good quality but only in the spring.
Steubers in Snohomish usually has quality fabric screen. In what general area do you live? That would help give purchase suggestions.
We use medium fine bark for all the paths in the woods or those that go under trees. Then they are further enhanced by needles AND cones, especially the little cones from the Doug firs. We put fabric screen under the bark as well.
We add new bark every couple years. The scent ,the color, and spring brought to your step are all pluses as well.
Annie
DebbieTT
Location: Washington, Kitsap Peninsula
Posted: Jul-26-2007 at 7:57pm
I agree with Annie about the paths of bark for under trees. Her paths are always nice. Plus if the get weedy you can lay newspaper down and pour on another round of mulch and you have instant good looking paths. Well not instant but close!
Gordo
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Island
Posted: Jul-26-2007 at 8:01pm
I'm no expert on the installation of gravel paths, but based on what has worked best for me in the past, I would recommend using something like 5/8 minus as a base material with an aggregate material on top. This gives you a compact base with less of the fine material for seeds to germinate in.
In some instances, however, I think a path of organic material such as wood chips is a better alternative.
mdvaden
Location: Oregon, Western
Posted: Jul-26-2007 at 11:45pm
My preference is no minus.
I can't see going with bigger than 1/4 - 10 like pea gravel, or washed pea gravel.
Because if the small gravel gets buried, so will the big stuff. Needles just won't fall through the cracks of even 2" rock.
The best part about the finer gravels, is that they pass through the tines of metal springy leaf rake tines, collecting the needles but releasing most of the fine gravel.
M.D. Vaden
elfin
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Jul-27-2007 at 8:24am
Thanks, everyone... even with a large variety of opinions, this is very helpful!
I figured out how to add my location finally... I'm in the Portland area. I already have landscape cloth laid and will purchase gravel from a local quarry that is close enough to deliver... the only decision left is the type of material used.
I'm concerned about bark because of fire danger... my paths encircle the house, within about 6-10 feet of it on all sides... isn't it probably a bad idea to consider bark this close to my home?
I went over to one of the gravel yards yesterday and checked out the options... I definitely see what some of you are saying about the "minus" components. Some of the gravels almost look like they are mixed with dirt due to the large amounts of fines. I liked what I saw with the 1/4-1/2 mix... a lot cleaner looking and I could imagine it giving a more finished look to my paths.
I also took a closer look at my quarter minus areas... mostly what is messing it up right now is not needles, but those itty bitty caps that form on the tips of doug fir needles... impossible to rake, but they will break down fairly quickly, I think. The quarter minus is also allowing weeds to grow... either too much breakdown of needles and other junk in it, or too many fines.
I'll keep considering this... more advise is useful and appreciated, if anyone has more. I haven't seen any drawbacks listed per se for larger gravel, I think it is not as attractive to the eye, for one.
I also wanted to mention that I saw anothe new user here with a name similar to mine, ElfinLuv. Just to clarify, that person is not me (and I thought I was choosing a unique user name!)
Thanks, everyone!
DebbieTT
Location: Washington, Kitsap Peninsula
Posted: Jul-27-2007 at 12:02pm
Elfin, For a main path, I would choose (actually have) gravel paths. I don't know how much of a fire hazard bark mulch would be though and although I wouldn't put bark mulch with 18 inches of the foundation, I would put it 6 feet away. I would choose bark mulch as I think it is easier to maintain and I don't use landscape fabric underneath it.
Having said that, I think it's up to your tastes and you know more than anyone what will look good for that setting. In a woodland setting my preference would be bark chips as it looks really natural and hides all the debri that constantly rains down from above.
I am slowly purchasing flagstone for my main walk which is gravel. I use 3/4 minus on mine and I am tired of weeding it.
JeanneK
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Jul-27-2007 at 4:10pm
Although, unless you cement the flagstone together, you are going to get weeds in between the rocks. Still, it looks really nice.
I agree, it's too much work to constantly clear a gravel path under evergreens. Best to go with it and use bark mulch.
Jeanne
HarleyLady
Location: Willamette Valley
Posted: Jul-27-2007 at 10:19pm
About the gravel: I have large-ish gravel (no idea what size) on some of my paths and I hate it...I don't go barefoot as much as I once did, so so my feet are tender and the larger chunks hurt through shoes with thin soles.
HarleyLady
Lisa A
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Jul-28-2007 at 10:40am
I use 1/4-minus and love it - the sound, the look and the feel of it. It gives me dry footing during winter rains, too, which is another plus. That said, I do struggle with how to keep it clean. Weeding isn't that big a deal for me; a quick tug or two with my hula hoe makes short work of plants seeding into the gravel. I've tried rakes with different sized tines and they seem to grab the gravel as well as the debris. Someone told me that she uses a natural fiber broom, quite old-fashioned in style and materials, but I can't remember what it was made of. Judging by her clean gravel paths, it works very well at leaving the gravel in place and sweeping up the debris. She told me she bought it at Tsugawa Nursery but they didn't have any when I last stopped so I'm still not sure exactly what I'm looking for. Has anyone heard of such a miracle broom?
I placed tumbled bluestone at the ends of a few paths to help hold the gravel in place and to mark a transition between gravel and lawn. It looks good but as Jeanne pointed out, it is a pain to weed between the stones. I'm giving up and mortaring the stones in place.
I agree with HL; larger-sized gravel is harder on the feet (I walk barefoot on mine, somewhat gingerly but definitely doable). I also find it much harder to weed with a hula-hoe.
Pea gravel paths look so good but I hate walking on them - too squishy - and definitely a struggle to push a wheel barrow over. It's like wading through jello (not that I've ever done that).
Other options to consider for bark-type paths are hog fuel (don't ask me why it's called that) and cedar chips. Both are nice looking with larger pieces that don't track into the house as easily and take longer to break down than most other forms of bark mulch.
As for your fire danger concerns, contact your local fire department to ask them for advice. Google "fire resistant landscapes" or "fire resistant planting" and you'll find lots of great resources. Here's one I found:
Fire-reistant plants for the Oregon Home Landscape.
mdvaden
Location: Oregon, Western
Posted: Jul-28-2007 at 7:41pm
Originally posted by elfin
Thanks, everyone... even with a large variety of opinions, this is very helpful!
I figured out how to add my location finally... I'm in the Portland area. I already have landscape cloth laid and will purchase gravel from a local quarry that is close enough to deliver... the only decision left is the type of material used.
I'm concerned about bark because of fire danger... my paths encircle the house, within about 6-10 feet of it on all sides... isn't it probably a bad idea to consider bark this close to my home?
I went over to one of the gravel yards yesterday and checked out the options... I definitely see what some of you are saying about the "minus" components. Some of the gravels almost look like they are mixed with dirt due to the large amounts of fines. I liked what I saw with the 1/4-1/2 mix... a lot cleaner
Not a bad choice.
That means no dirt, or very little dirt in it. It should pack nicely too.
M.D. Vaden
JeanneK
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Jul-29-2007 at 12:10pm
Nice list, Lisa. Thanks for posting it!
Jeanne
elfin
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Aug-13-2007 at 12:50pm
Hi again, everybody... I'm still mulling over this gravel thing. Got my pricing, found a frontloader to rent. Now I'm preparing room for the 12-15 yard pile of gravel I'll be getting. Then lo and behold, I saw the timely article about gravel gardening in last weeks Oregonian H & G section. So I decided to go on the weekend Joy Creek tour to pick up a few more tips from the gravel masters...
Of course, I've been to Joy Creek many many times, but never asked the nitty gritty questions about how they maintain their gardens. Maurice was our tour guide.
First of all, they don't use quarter-minus... they use quarter-ten, which means no super fines. Their methods of gardening with it make a great deal of sense (see last week's article for details, if you missed it). Bottom line... itty bitty crushed gravel is a *fantastic* growing medium.
Of course, Joy Creek has the same gravel in all their paths... so the obvious question is, how do they maintain these and keep them weed-free? Of course, I'm thinking all the foot traffic they get probably helps keep weeds at bay, but even Joy Creek has to do a Roundup sweep of their paths. They use a blue marker in it to make sure of what they are doing.
So I'm still thinking I'll go with the larger size gravel for my paths... at the very least, I can see how it compares when it comes to weed germination.
Genko
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Aug-13-2007 at 5:53pm
My sister and I have walkways of flagstones set in crushed rock, with various ground covers (scotch moss, irish moss, blue star creeper, creeping and woolly thyme, depending on conditions) in the crushed rock and very little difficulty with weeds. The gaps between the rocks vary from about 1 to 3 inches. We are real happy with this arrangement.
Genko
elfin
Posted: Aug-14-2007 at 10:49am
I would love to do all my paths in flagstone... but the space I garden is just too large. When you have to order gravel by the truckload/ton rather than yard/unit, and you have to rent a frontloader to get it spread... yikes!
dlbird
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Aug-18-2007 at 2:18pm
Joy Creek "did" my yard last year with gravel beds, and for your ino, compacted gravel paths. This works well for me as I can't do much gardening, and this is easy for me. It rakes up fir needles and cones without apparent harm to the surface.
IT WORRKS!
dlbird
Phlox
Location: Washington, Southwestern
Posted: Aug-18-2007 at 2:23pm
I've had a gravel path in my back yard for years and have had very little problems with weeds once it got packed down tight. The biggest problem I have with it now is this certain kind of moss, it loves to take over.
I also just finished putting a new gravel path through part of my front yard. I love my paths.
elfin
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Aug-21-2007 at 3:24pm
Update... I ordered 15 tons of 1/2-1/4 gravel... it's very clean, no fines. We have just spread a very little of it so far (the frontloader will be here tomorrow, we wanted to wait until the rain was gone!). So far, so good... I love it! It's compacting nicely, easy to walk in... I think it will fit the bill perfectly!
Fern
Location: Washington, Western Cascade Foothills
Posted: Aug-21-2007 at 5:16pm
Just wanted to say I've learned alot from this thread, and if I were to make more paths this definitely sounds like the way to go.
Fern
mdvaden
Location: Oregon, Western
Posted: Aug-22-2007 at 5:19pm
Let's see - that's about 8 - 10 cubic yards, right?
That will only take about 2 days to put out if you hustle
But I'd probably spread the work out over a week or two myself.
If you wear gloves, you'll do okay.
M.D. Vaden
elfin
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Aug-22-2007 at 8:34pm
Wanna come help? We have spread some of it by hand, places too narrow for the frontloader. Hardly made a dent in the very large pile! We have a John Deere lawntractor with a trailer, and even with that it is a lot of heavy work. The rented frontloader showed up today, but the darn thing is broken... you can drive it around, you can tip the bucket but you can't raise or lower the bucket. So we'll have to get a new one and try again tomorrow... I'll post some pics of the finished product!
elfin
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Aug-23-2007 at 4:30pm
Guy came and got the frontloader fixed this morning (it was a fairly minor issue), and have been moving rock all day! This will take nearly 8 hours of solid frontloader work (not including manpower hours moving by hand, raking it out, etc). I thought it would go a little more quickly, but 15 tons is a bit more than I thought... based on how much square footage we've covered I think it's close to 15 yards of material. It might be lighter in weight than other gravel materials because there are no fines. It's super clean stuff... hardly any dust, even. In any case, I would not recommend moving this much material by hand!
One thing I'm really noticing is that nice, freshly graveled paths certainly do help highlight all the flaws/weeds/etc in your garden beds! Things I'd never noticed before are now sticking out like sore thumbs! Of course, this is the time of year when things start to look a little raggedy anyways, so I am keeping that in mind.
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