Apples Dropping at Record Pace
Forum Archives
JD77
Location: Western Oregon
Posted: Jul-28-2007 at 9:15pm
In my back, I inherited 2 espallier (spelling?) apple trees. I have honestly not been a very nuturing gardner but last year they brought on quite a nice number of apples.
Just this week, however, most of the apples fell from 1 of my 2 trees. The tree otherwise looks fine (although it looks hot like most of my yard) but I'd say it is holding about 20% of its fruit right now.
Any thoughts as to what I may have done (or more likely not done) and how to avoid it for next time? It feels wasteful.
trav
Location: Washington, Western
Posted: Jul-29-2007 at 12:06am
JD77, I've noticed my Gravenstein trees - that normally are pickable about weeks 2-4 in August - are dropping a LOT of fruit that's obviously ripe. I expect it's because we had an unusual amount of nice, very warm weather earlier in the year (especially in May). The apples are just ripening earlier. Plus (at least in my case) the trees bore rather heavily last year, so this year they've had a much lighter set of fruit.
I don't think there's any moisture stress involved, if you're in the Puget Sound region. From what I've read, the overall soil moisture levels haven't been too bad this year despite the earlier run of hot weather.
Travis
gary
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Jul-29-2007 at 3:32am
I think Trav is right as I have the same with my Gravensteins. I also think that the rain last week, 2.27" for me, has swelled the fruit added extra weight.
And I didn't thin them either.
Gary
HarleyLady
Location: Willamette Valley
Posted: Jul-29-2007 at 8:09am
I'll chime in to say me, three. I noticed my Gravensteins starting to drop this past week and checked and found them ripe. I didn't thin either, and still the fruits are very large. I've picked those remaining on the tree. The kitchen is sweet with the scent of the ripe apples and by tonight there will be shiny jars of apple butter and applesauce on the pantry shelves.
HarleyLady
trav
Location: Washington, Western
Posted: Jul-29-2007 at 11:50am
Originally posted by gary
And I didn't thin them either.
You know, every year I say "THIS is the year I thin my apples and pears", and every year I manage to not do it.
Travis
gary
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Jul-30-2007 at 7:06am
Trav,
Thinning fruit, roofs over tomatoes, you and I aren't doing very well are we?
Gary
JeanneK
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Jul-30-2007 at 11:01am
Wow, I have to say, me four. My Gravenstein is dropping apples too. They do look ripe but some of them have not gotten very big. I am not worried about it though, as like Trav, I had a very big apple year last year and I think the tree is taking a bit of a break.
What?! I thought for sure you avid food growers were thinning your apples. I am soooo disappointed. LOL. I don't thin either. Normally, I don't and the apples seem to be good size. Seems like most of the time, the tree handles the dropping itself.
Jeanne
JD77
Location: Western Oregon
Posted: Jul-31-2007 at 1:54pm
Update. I picked 2 of the remaining apples for my kids lunch today. Small, but color looked ripe even if it seems a few weeks too early. I cut them for the kids are found them to be unripe. Bummer. I have lost most of the fruit from my tree but the fruit isn't quite ripe. Beside operator error (which is usually the case with me) why might the tree have dropped apples a couple weeks early if they are not even ripe? Maybe just a bad luck year for me.
silver_ creek
Location: Washington, Western Cascade Foothills
Posted: Aug-01-2007 at 6:49am
Some varieties are prone to premature dropping. Drought stress can increase that.
I am surprised to hear that peoples' Gravensteins are ripening early. Though we don't have that variety, most of our trees look to be running a little late, judging on size and coloration. Our earliest apple, Discovery, is usually ripe mid-August, so I guess I'll have to check ripeness on that one.
We do thin! Vigorously and thoroughly! But we do not irrigate much (low flow well), so thinning is the primary way we get size. (And I grew up on a commercial orchard; my father would be horrified if I didn't thin those apples!)
Terry M.
bakingbarb
Location: Washington, Western
Posted: Aug-01-2007 at 5:25pm
I thought a tree would drop if stressed in the summer without enough water and lots of heat?
~BakingBarb
gary
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Aug-02-2007 at 6:48am
I have no research developed knowledge of the reasons; just a record of the weather conditions. 2007 reversed our 'usual' July weather. It was warm and dry early and cooler and wet for sure later.
The AgriMet station at Aurora, OR recorded 4.2" inches of Evapotranspiration need for apples in the first 15 days of the month. That's 33% higher than high quality turf. Did any of us irrigate that much? (Didn't think so.) The last 16 days of the month the ET demand was only 2.95".
That's in Willamette Valley weather though. In Olympia, my data shows 3.59" July 1-15 and 1.98" 7/16-31. Now I didn't water my apple tree that much in the first half of the month but Mother Nature put down 2.27" of water in the 2nd half of the month.
It would seem to me that early July sure put the drought stress on the apples. Late July provided more than enough water to swell the fruit and break the stems. It may be more apparent to me as my tree is one of those 50+ year grafted trees. The gravenstein branch is the early apple and it had the full root system to suck up water to swell the fruit.
It may also be more apparent this year to all of us if your experience in June was the same as mine. I recall that I had no "June Drop" that Trav and I use for our thinning. I knocked a few off while mowing under it (Ed. -do better pruning Gary) but that was all.
How about the Spring weather? The Ag guys at Aurora started their apple ET on April 1st this year. Their total ET thru August 1st is 19.2". I've barely had 8" of rain since April 1st.
So I think the trees got the stress you all have been talking about above. If we had thinned like Terry, I don't think we would be seeing as much drop as we have.
Terry is right on the two ways to increase yield; water and thinning. Last year Aurora's total ET for apples was over 28 inches of water. They ran the accumulations from April 20th to October 10th. That's as much water as we needed for "high quality" turf from March 20th to October 14th. (And that water demand doesn't count the orchard grass beneath the tree canopy.)
Olympia charges me $1,700 for an acre foot of water. If I had 4 semi dwarf trees in a 20x20 square, that's $350+ a season for the apple trees. We should be thinning Trav!
Perhaps Terry can help us on a related question.
Is the number of seeds we see in these dropped apples an indication of stress? Mine seem to be few and far between and immature to boot.
Gary
silver_ creek
Location: Washington, Western Cascade Foothills
Posted: Aug-02-2007 at 6:59am
Another point about thinning the fruit; quantity vs. quality is the main reason to thin—fewer but higher quality fruit on the tree. The other main reason for thinning is to short circut the natural tendency of apples and some pears to bear biennially. By thinning early, you remove the source of ethylene gas emitted by the growing and ripening fruit. With less gas around, the tree is stimulated to form flower buds for the following season. Conversely, if you don't thin, and the tree has a heavy crop, that gas emitted by the fruit "tells" the tree it can take a year off. We are facing a dilema in our own orchard, as we have planted many hard cider varieties. Growing fruit for cider, we want smaller apples (more skin=more tannins for the cider) and more of them, so many cider orchardists do not thin. But cider varieties almost all are strongly biennial, and we would like yearly crops. So those trees we thin lightly....
I think lack of numerous seeds shows incomplete pollination.
Terry M.
JeanneK
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Aug-02-2007 at 10:37am
I had no June drop either, Gary, and thought it was odd. Thanks for the Aurora numbers on the ET needed for Apples.
I know I should be thinning. Now I have another reason to thin. The tree needs less water and is not stressed as much when the apples are thinned. Obvious, I know, but didn't think about it that way. Also, it's good to know, Terry, that thinning produces a more reliable crop from year to year. Thanks, guys!
Jeanne
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