Growing Vegetables West of the Cascades
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Cathyinwa
Location: Washington, Western
Posted: Aug-04-2004 at 8:15pm
Has anyone read "Growing Vegetables West of the Cascades" by Steve Solomon? If so what do you think of his methods?
I want to start a garden next year and I'm reading up on it . His book seems very detailed for growing veggies here. It sorta makes me want to give up before I even get started.
Anyone have any advice? Or other book suggests?
Cathy
Gary
I have and have read many times every book that Solomon has written on gardening here. I have worn out and given away all editions Growing Vegetables West of the Cascades but the first (I got the 2nd one too soon I guess).
For most of us on this site, we consider it "the bible". That said, I believe it is used as a reference book by most of us. And Solomon acknowledges that in the introduction, “GVWOFC has always been constructed a little differently than most other gardening guides. It strongly advocates thinking for ones self. It explains basic processes that happen in growing food and then puts you in a position to decide for yourself exactly what to do.” Such as, will you become a capital “O” or small “o” organic gardener?
When I worked on the “Watering your Garden” TOTW, it was the first book I picked up to re-read on irrigation. I did the same with the current threads on the main forum on “composting” and “organic gardening Q’s”. Every time I read a section again, I seem to find something that I don’t remember catching before. An example is the advice at the beginning of the Harvest section for tomatoes to thin flower clusters on determinate plants much as we do to apple and, as Debbie learned, peach trees. I don’t think that I have seen that anywhere else but my results the last two years agree with his advice. This is probably because many other regions of the country take suckers off determinate tomato plants and start a second crop cycle. We are just trying to get fruit green enough to take inside to ripen if you don’t use the right varieties.
As Solomon says in his intro, your library has shelves of vegetable books. Rainyside has a Book Shelf for Edibles too. I have or have read many of them. Were I to buy a second book now for a new gardener it would be McGee & Stuckey's Bountiful Container: A Container Garden of Vegetables, Herbs, Fruits, and Edible Flowers. They live in Western OR, McGee is of the Nichols Seed Co., and the advice they give on herbs and vegetables applies to both container and soil based plants. Solomon even refers you to other books in his text such as Binda Colebrook’s Winter Gardening in the Maritime Northwest.
What is my advice for a beginner? First, do not try to consume all of Solomon at one sitting. Read the first chapter and the beginning parts of most chapters to see how far into the subject you want to go. And example would be the lime & fertilizer section of Soils. Try to get as much knowledge as you can from the Planning and Seeds chapters and promise yourself to go back to them later.
Look carefully at "Scale of Relative Value" on page 100 to help in makimg your vegetable choices. Two row feet of corn will give you 4-6 god ears of corn and be worth a $1.50 at a Farmers' Market. Two row feet of new potates can give you four lbs and be worth $8 at the Market. Read the section on "The Garden Seed Business". Even if you decode not grow your own transplants yet, read how to buy seedlings. The seed and transplant information will save you a great deal of money and wasted effort.
As you start on your plan for next year, look up the vegetables in the "How to Grow It" chapter. For example, read the 2 pages on growing spinach beginning on page 272. Most books will give you individual vegetable advice but few are as complete, with season by season info, or as local as Steve’s.
For quick advice, visit and consume the Westside Gardener site run by Debbie’s former colleague on this site, Travis Saling. Trav is another, dare I say, disciple and he has put a lot of the knowledge he has learned from Steve and his own garden into chunks of info that can be quickly found and consumed.
Go to the site now at:
"The Westside Gardener"
Go to his quick looks link and print out the three articles there; Vegetable Garden Timetable, Topical Index, and Winter Vegetable Gardening.
Maybe you want to start your garden TODAY after you read his August Calendar:
August
Summer may start on July 12th, but sometimes it ends well before August 31st! The days are starting to get noticably shorter, and sometimes we can get surprised by a very cold night. Frost, however, is still at least a month away.
First Half
Winter lettuce will size up best if sown during the first 10 days of this month.
The various chicories (endive, escarole, radicchio, etc.) need a good amount of time to mature, especially if they are the heading types. Right now I'd recommend a sowing date of August 1st for all of these. Be aware that I just started trying winter radicchio in 1997, so I don't have the best sowing date nailed down yet.
Spinach can be started now. It matures faster than most of these other greens, and can be successfully sown as late as the 31st.
Second Half
I like to start corn salad (mache, or lamb's lettuce) right about the 15th of August.
Arugula, if put in between mid-August and early September, will size up without bolting. Okay, without bolting immediately, at least.
If you haven't sown any Upland cress yet, do it now! There's still time for it to size up.
With overwintered onions you'll have to play around a bit to find the best starting date. I try to start mine about the 15th. If you haven't grown them before, consider making three sowings (on the 1st, 15th, and 30th) and go from there. Note that Walla Wallas, which dry down later than most other overwintered onions, can be started later than this (I've gotten good bulbs in July after sowing Walla Wallas in mid-September).
The Territorial Seed Catalog (the company Steve started) and the Maritime Northwest Garden Guide produced by Seattle Tilth will also give you information on timing and culture.
Territorial Seed Co.
Seattle Tilth
And of course, we try to answer all questions here on Rainyside. If you can be more specific as to your garden’s location, soils, and microclimate issues like trees, sunshine, wind, exposure, etc., the answers to your questions can come quicker and BE more detailed.
Gary
Olympia
Sunset Zone 5, USDA Zone 8
John
Location: Puget Sound corridor
Posted: Aug-05-2004 at 10:51am
An aficionado fine foods, around the turn of the century I was attempting to expand my culinary talents but the cost of fresh herbs and such mainstays as shallots arrested my development as the neighborhood gourmet.
The “how to” cook shows on television had the chef wandering into the garden to pluck fresh produce and herbs, prepare them in the kitchen and then serve them on beautiful china plates. I felt that I could do the same, except maybe the beautiful china plates.
About gardening, I knew very little. My grandfather, who lived on the east coast had a garden, but like you, I knew little about how or what to grow.
I surfed around and eventually came up with the original “Rainyside.com”. It became my guiding light, actually the articles written by Travis and the input from others that participated in the Rainyside Forum became my guiding lights. I relied heavily and still do on their input. Travis also has links that lead you other sources of information and guidance. Because of wealth of information available, Steve Soloman came late besides, Travis and the others had already read and boiled down the information for us rookies. However, I review the section on “What Our Soils Need to Grow Vegetables” and Chapter 9 “How to Grow It” as I head out hoe in hand.
Now when I go to the farmers market, I get to compare mine to theirs. Frequently, I have to say, “hey size isn’t everything” or “how come his/hers doesn’t have any holes in the leafs”. There are those times, however, when its hard to be humble, when size, color freshness all come together, and if I remember, I thank Travis, Gary, Debbie, Steve and all those who participate in the Rainyside Forum for my successes. Perfect, smaller than average or shot fill of holes, rarely do I feel the need for a fine china plate the taste fresh from the garden speaks for itself.
If you don’t factor in the minimum wage cost per hour for your labor it doesn’t take much at today’s prices to get your money back. Soon you will be like the rest of us. “Where can I get cottonseed meal?”
cjmiller
Location: Oregon, Willamette Valley
Posted: Aug-05-2004 at 6:09pm
Kathy, I know the feeling of being overwhelmed by more knowledge that you can possibly absorb. So, when I got Solomon's book, I was in the middle of spring planting of veggies. I first focused on each veggie, and that along got me a long way, then as problems or questions arose or weird stuff happened, I went back to Solomon to get help. True to his name, Solomon is very wise, and his writings are very helpful. Yes, I do have other gardening books, but often the author gardens in Iowa, or North Carolina, and we just dont have the same conditions. That is why we are so tied to the Gardening of Solomon, the PNW bible.
Once you have a great sucess or even promise of great sucess, you get hooked. Here we are nearing the end of the season, and you are already demonstrating the right kind of thinking about next year. You can learn a lot about your yard, check the path of the sun on the area where you want to plant. Check for soggy places during the rainy season. You might want to take some soil samples from your yard and find out what your strengths and weaknesses are as far as pH, fertility and tilth of your soil.
You might even want to try some of the winter veggies--order Territorial Seed's winter catalog, and Nichols herb cataloge which has much more than just herbs. You might want to order compost stuff to put on top of the area. or if you need to do some major weed removal--Oh, so much to do, so little time! Good Luck and dont look back!
Carol
trav
Location: Washington, Western
Posted: Aug-06-2004 at 12:30pm
Hi Cathy(inwa),
I love Steve's book, but I can also understand why it might be overwhelming. He tried (and succeeded, I believe) to write a complete al-in-one reference for the PNW veggie grower. The good thing is you can take his book and digest it in smaller chunks.
To echo (and hopefully add something new to) the great advice already given - my suggestion would be to perhaps read the chapter on "Short Course in Soil Science" first. This is because you should, if possible, prepare for next year's garden this fall. You don't need to understand all the nitty-gritty details; just focus on the "here's what you need to do" parts of the chapter. If all that still seems overwhelming, then just follow the "one-shot" advice he gives at the very beginning of the "Elementary Soil Science" section in that chapter. Just doing that, and nothing else, will still give you a great head start for next year's garden.
Then (as has already been mentioned), as you get ready to plant veggies next year, first read the specific section on the particular veggie in question. This is mainly to help you avoid making mistakes like starting your squash in February (I've seen it happen) etc. Try to focus on the big picture, and don't let the little details bog you down.
Finally, as the others have said - always ask questions! There are lots of people of varying experience here. Don't feel as if you're the only beginner, because you're not.
Travis The Westside Gardener
trav
Location: Washington, Western
Posted: Aug-07-2004 at 11:06am
Gary just gave me a head's up that the newer version of this book doesn't break the sections down the same way. Sorry - I'm using the third edition, from 1989.
I'll have to take a look at a newer copy. Hopefully he didn't over-think his revisions, because the third edition was eminently readable!
Here's a summary of Steve Solomon's "one shot soil management" system (note that he followed this by much more detail):
Separate your garden into two equal sections, one for winter and one for summer
In the fall, preferably October, spread a layer of leaves (no more than two inches) or horse manure (no more than 1/2 inch) on the summer half of your garden. DO NOT USE MORE THAN THIS
Spread 50 pounds of dolomite lime per 1000 sq. ft.
Spread cover-crop seed as evenly as possible
Till it all in shallowly
In the spring, as early as the soil can be worked, spread approx. 1 gallon complete organic fertilizer per 100 square feet or five gallons of chicken manure or a cubic foot of chicken manure compost. Till it all in. Wait 7-10 days and till again. (If it's too wet to till, work everything in with a hoe). Now work up a seed bed and plant your early spring crops.
Next, on the winter half of your garden, spread a quarter inch or so of reasonably well-rotted compost. Do not use sawdust-y manure, since the goal is to be ready for planting in early-to-mid summer
When it's time for the summer garden, fertilize as above, work it all in and then plant. In fall prepare this to be your spring garden.
The main thing I want to add is: since the winter stuff will follow the spring garden, be sure to leave space in the spring garden for the winter stuff that has to start early - particularly Brussels sprouts.
Travis
gary
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Aug-07-2004 at 3:18pm
Hmmm. I wonder if the reason that Trav has not worn out his copies because he reads them during his 1/2 hour lunches at the UW "EE" school and I read at 'my library' (where you can sit and get a beer for every 30 pages you read!) for some hours?
Gary
trav
Location: Washington, Western
Posted: Aug-08-2004 at 11:02am
Originally posted by gary
Hmmm. I wonder if the reason that Trav has not worn out his copies because he reads them during his 1/2 hour lunches at the UW "EE" school and I read at 'my library' (where you can sit and get a beer for every 30 pages you read!) for some hours?
Hehe. I'll try to assemble the pieces of the book so I can take a photo of it for you.
Travis
gary
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Aug-08-2004 at 4:37pm
Trav,
When you are as big (& crusty) as I am, it is very easy to sit in my neighborhood tavern and read. Everyone knows to leave me (well enough) alone. The only issue is to discipline yourself on the pages to be read before the next glass. Having trained some decades ago on the final State Budget bills (large print but 100-200+ pages), I now have no problem reading something fun like a gardening book at 30 pages per glass.
Gary
growsherown
Location: Olympic Peninsula
Posted: Aug-11-2004 at 10:06am
Hi Cathy!
Having bought Steves book (the 5th edition) this early spring, I must say it is a wonderful source of info for the NW gardener. I have learned so much from it, and you can tell by looking at my garden!
As you said, I really had to pick & choose through it as it did seem like a bit much to digest at first, but little by little as I read, it began to sink in. It's kind of like ordering a jumbo pizza just for yourself...take what you need now, and come back for the rest later!
I think the "How to grow it" chapter has been the most helpful to me, closely followed by "Soil", "Seeds", and "Transplants". These 4 chapters are a wealth of tried and true knowledge that you'll be glad you absorbed. He gives great tips and advice about buying seeds and transplants, (how to select good ones that will actually grow), that I have found quite usefull when I'm out "nursery hopping". He also gives alot of great references on good seed sources for NW varieties, such as Territorial, Stokes and West Coast seed companies....all have free catalogs, by the way.
Also in this edition, he gives a few "recipies" that are, in my opinion, irreplaceable! His recipes for "Complete Organic Fertilizer" (page 34-35), and his "My own seedling mix" soil recipe (page 199) is what I credit my garden success to completely! For me, they were the 2 most usefull pickings from the book.
Just wander through the book for now....mark these pages Ive mentioned, and you'll find yourself going back to the book quite often...I know I sure do!
If I ever had the chance to meet Steve Solomon, those who know me know that I would probably run up and give him a big 'ol hug..and thats the truth! My garden has never been better.....and I owe it all to Solomon, and Rainyside, of course!
Welcome to you....and happy gardening!
Cathyinwa
Location: Washington, Western
Posted: Aug-14-2004 at 9:33pm
Thanks for everyone's answers and encouragement. I've been dealing with a teething nine month old, so I haven't had much free time lately.
I have been reading more of the book and digesting it slowly. It's just so different from gardening in the south.
According to Steve, I won't be able to have much of a winter garden. I live in Whatcom county about one and one half miles from the Canadian border.
I have clay soil and I will be taking Steve advise and having some top soil brought in. Yesterday, we had 16 yards delivered to even out the yard and my back is hurting already.
I'm still waiting to next spring to start a garden. We're putting in a gargage and patio in the next few month. And we need to work out drainage issues before we can decide where to put the garden. I have two places picked out.
We have two nice deer that come through our yard every evening. And then there are the rabbits. I'll have to work out the best way to protect the plants.
Thanks
Cathy
gary
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Aug-15-2004 at 7:17am
Cathy,
I think Steve's comment said "some winters you won't"? You may be able to get a better idea to your specific location at:
Washington Climate Summaries
Blaine, Clearbrook, Bellingham, etc. are all on that map and you can click on a number to see all manner of weather data. Clearbrook's data goes back to 1931 and shows once again that April 1934 was a half degree warmer than April 2004.
The coldest January there has been in 1950 when the average max temp for the month was only 23F. But then it was only 32F in Olympia that year. Had I been growing kale and Brussels sprouts then instead of trying to dig tunnels in the 6 drift of powdery snow outside my bedroom window, the plants would have survived because of the snow protection. Binda Colebrook also finished most of her book on Winter Gardening in Skagit Co. just to your south
Another source of information and seeds, etc. close to you is West Coast Seeds. Their location just north of Pt. Roberts, WA is closer to the water but still subject to the same Fraser River winter outflows. I think you'll find some good information in their catalog also.
Mary Ballon started the company 20+ years ago in conjunction wtih Steve as the canadian Territorial Seed Co. Their planting times should give you good timing corrections to Steve's Willamette Valley as Travis' timetables do for us in the Southern Puget Sound.
You can get a lot of vegetable info on their site also:
West Coast Seeds
Gary
Cathyinwa
Location: Washington, Western
Posted: Aug-15-2004 at 9:38pm
Thanks for the added information.
Steve's comments on "frigid" Whatcom County are a little more pessimistic. He gives Whatcom County as an example of a maritime Northwest location that is "so severe that year-round gardening is nearly impossible". He states that the garden would be wiped out "most winters".
We have a lot of clear cold nights here. Last October when we were taking our newborn home from the hospital it was in the 20's. Our coldest temp when we lived near Ferndale last winter was 12 degrees.
Skagit Valley is more protected than Whatcom County and is safe for winter gardening.
Cathy
gary
Location: Washington, Puget Sound Corridor
Posted: Aug-18-2004 at 11:27am
Cathy,
While researching cover crops, I was reminded of an Oregon State site with lots of vegetable growing information in easily digestible chunks. It is called Growing Your Own. You can view the list of articles at:
Growing Your Own
Gary
Red Hare
Location: Oregon coast
Posted: Aug-18-2004 at 2:56pm Hey, John, are you married? I've got some pretty china plates! Oh, wait, I just remembered - I already have a husband. Darn!
Don't forget that your own-grown vegetables may be much more nutritious, even if they are smaller and holey. And size doesn't seem to affect flavor.
I bought Solomon's book early this summer and was blown away, especially by the section on soil. I'm having to completely relearn and rethink my amendment practices.
Cathyinwa, I know what you mean about it being overwhelming. I will probably never grow everything that he grows, I'll never survive on what I can grow - I just don't have that much time or room on my tiny city lot. But I am growing some of the things that I love (like real tomatoes, sugar snap peas, and potatoes) and things that are too expensive (like asparagus and artichokes and shallots), along with some herbs I enjoy cooking with. As I reread his book, I'll probably gain enough courage to try some other things, too.
Oh, and I never think of the time I spend tending my garden - whether ornamental or vegetable - as labor to be factored into the value of my produce, but in terms of what it would have cost me to go to a shrink for therapy that may or may not have been as effective as time spent weeding and caring for my garden. I'm thousands of dollars ahead!
Gardening for the Homebrewer: Grow and Process Plants for Making Beer, Wine, Gruit, Cider, Perry, and More
By co-authors Debbie Teashon (Rainy Side Gardeners) and Wendy Tweton