Cutleaf Staghorn Sumac
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sparklemama
Location: Western Washington
Posted: Oct-04-2004 at 5:46pm
greetings to all...lol. why is it that a simple trip to the nursery tunrs into a buying frenzy..lol? i went in today to buy my witchhazel and by the way after much debate i ended up with 'arnolds promise'. but i think i might be sneaking back for 'jelena' or 'copper beauty' as its known...lol. in winter. i also ended up with sumac'tiger eyes'. deeply cut leaves that are golden with new growth chartreuse to yellow growth and pink stems. in fall color is yellow, orange and bright red. tag says its wide spreading to 6'x6'.
does it grow as a shrub, multi-trunked, or single trunk tree?
so has anyone had any experience with this one or any other sumacs i guess. i do know where i want to put it but i was just wondering how others faired.
tommyb
Location: Oregon, Willamette Valley
Posted: Oct-05-2004 at 7:55am
Hi Jennifer,
I'm a sucker for sumac. And I returned to the scene of the temptation to gather my Tiger Eyes yesterday. If the bright thing in the sky co-operates, I'll post a photo of my lace leaf this AM. The color is one of the reasons...
I've had, even for me, strange experiences with sumac over the last couple of years. Apparently a late frost will kill the creature to the ground. Apparently if one over feeds, as in too much manure, and/or over waters, the plant either puts all its growth into roots or just luxuriates without producing much new growth. When I whacked my lace leaf to six inches tall, I got a bunch of vigorous new growth (which some plant guru said to thin out---now I wish I had).
What I find difficult to get my brain to assimilate is that I see sumac thriving beside the road, in fields, and generally everywhere. I had one in a previous yard which got kid and dog pruned for several years, then was left alone and put up four to five feet a year. My current selections are either just hangin' out or doing four feet from nothing. I wonder what next spring will bring. The pusher,er,nursery owner who supplied my Tiger Eye probably had the right idea "we humans expect plants to be consistant in their behaviour. They don't know that and do what they want."
I did a Google on Tiger Eye, new plant, must be some info out there. Just your basic "grower marketing", no "mine did this...". Like my Purple Smoke bush, with its eight to ten feet from the stump, I guess we will just have to wait and see what the beastees decide to do.
Gonna be pretty, I bet!
Tom
JeanneK
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Oct-05-2004 at 8:04am
Sumacs generally like to sucker. However it sounds like 'Tiger Eyes' is much better behaved
"Tough and easy to grow, Tiger Eyes™ differs from other sumac in a number of ways. The most obvious being its' small size, reaching a manageable height and width of just 6 feet. Another major difference is that it spreads slowly and should not be considered invasive. They prefer full to part sun, are not particular about soil type and best of all, are quite drought tolerant once established. Tiger Eyes™ is hardy in zones 4-8."
What a beauty. I have seen a cut leaf sumac in my neighborhood and have not noticed any suckering. It has two trunks coming out of a low, single trunk and has gorgeous fall color. A warm, golden orange. It's also much taller, maybe 10 - 15 feet. It's very yummy. Too bad it doesn't sucker!
Have fun placing this beauty!
Jeanne
JeanneK
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Oct-05-2004 at 8:39am
LOL, Tommy. We over-posted but you beat me to pushing the send button!
Tommy, it must be the natives vs. the cultivars. My native suckers like crazy. Unfortunately, I have it an area where I really don't want the suckering. I wonder if I should dig it out now and toss it?
Where did you buy 'Tiger Eyes' if I might ask? Somewhere in Portland, I am hoping?
Jeanne
tommyb
Location: Oregon, Willamette Valley
Posted: Oct-05-2004 at 9:45am
Oh the temptation...
Minutes from full sun and digital in hand, my lace leaf (is that the same as cut leaf??) is all suckers. Or resprouts??
Jeanne, Fergusons Fragrant Nusery, on French Prairie Road, take the Donald\Champoeg exit and head west, my reciept says $18.75. Some kind of Fall Sale. They have had a frost(?), the leaves are gone. Maybe eight or so left. I've placed the lil' thing nest to the lace leaf, and will do a Photo Gallery post.
Beware the temptation if you haven't Ferguson's before!
Tom
sparklemama
Location: Western Washington
Posted: Oct-05-2004 at 10:28am
wow tommy sounds like you have had some finicky sumacs in the past..lol. i had been walking past this beauty for a few weeks and just couldn't resist snatching it up as i walked to the cash register. I had hoped to put it in the front yard in the very corner of the fence as it said slower grower to only 6x6. unfortuantley i had planned to place my witch hazel there but am now unsure as to what i want to do after switching them around for hours yesterday!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think i am going to go crazy trying to figure out where he needs to go. i am very glad i gave into the 'pusher' at the nurery though..lol.
are the cutleaf sumacs better planted in a grouping, or alone? since mine is only in a gallon pot i am assuming it will talk years for it to get any height or width to it?
thanks again for you guys help!! i most apperciate it.
Lisa A
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Oct-07-2004 at 11:19am
IME, even the cutleaf sumac, Rhus typhina laciniata, will sucker, although not as aggressively as Rhus glabra. They also don't seem particularly long-lived. I got a sucker from my in-laws tree, which they had for about 15 years, IIRC. It declined and died about that time (which is why they were taking suckers). Mine didn't grow large and remained more bushy-like, like Tom's, and didn't resemble my in-laws, which grew to 8' or more. I removed mine because repeated digging in the area sparked more suckers and it wasn't in a place where I wanted that type of growth. I don't know if its suckers would have traveled farther from the mother plant with time.
I do know that the suckers of Rhus glabra will travel quite a distance away, even under blacktop. We planted 2 of these in the school garden. While their quick growth was a plus - their tall form invited birds into the courtyard area - they have become a bane, popping up everywhere and lifting the blacktop path. They are going to be removed.
FYI - Rhus glabra is our region's native and can be found throughout much of North America. I believe they are more commonly found at higher elevations and in drier parts of our region, such as in the Cascades and on the other side of the mountains. At least, that's where I've generally spied them. Rhus typhina is the closely related Eastern version of R. g. I'm guessing their close resemblance is the reason I find cutleaf sumac listed as both Rhus glabra lacinata and as Rhus typhina laciniata. I was fairly certain I had R. t. lacinata but now I'm not so sure without more research. A project for a rainy day!
JeanneK
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Oct-07-2004 at 1:50pm
Lisa, thanks for the info on Rhus Glabra. I did not realize when I bought it that it would sucker so much. I wanted a multi-stemmed shrub/small tree that could handle dry, southern exposure.It can handle that and more! It's pretty but the suckers are becoming a problem. I planted it in an area with many plants, close to a sidewalk. You recommend removing it? Knowing that they can pull up blacktop and sidewalks would be a good reason to get rid of it!
Jeanne
sparklemama
Location: Western Washington
Posted: Oct-08-2004 at 11:53am
thanks for all that great info lisa. i had no idea that sumacs were so invasive. all the ones i have seen were -like your in-laws. about 8-10 ft tall with multi-trunks, but i never noticed any habits like that. i guess i am hoping that the Rhus typhina 'tiger eyes'will not be so invasive as i planted it in the front yard in the grass about 6ft from the fence.
should i pull it up and move it to the back corner some where? or if i stay on top of the suckering and pruning do you think it will be a problem?
i guess it is not always good to give in to just the beauty of a plant. thats what i get for not researching before buying.
thanks again for all the info lisa. let me know if you find anything more on your rainy day research..lol.
Lisa A
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Oct-08-2004 at 12:01pm
I don't think you need to pull it up, sparklemama, especially since Jeanne's research points to this form's less aggressive nature. You may need to stay on top of the suckers, as with other similarly-growing and lovely plants, but it sounds like a small price to pay for the beauty it promises. It isn't that hard to cut the suckers and I recall they pulled rather easily.
sparklemama
Location: Western Washington
Posted: Oct-09-2004 at 12:57pm
Great..that is good news to hear. it does look very pretty contrasting with the dark green grass and the fence i have to say. so i am glad that i don't have to move it. thanks for all your help.
Gardening for the Homebrewer: Grow and Process Plants for Making Beer, Wine, Gruit, Cider, Perry, and More
By co-authors Debbie Teashon (Rainy Side Gardeners) and Wendy Tweton