Pruning Timing
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Lisa A
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Dec-26-2004 at 12:58pm
On a recent episode of "In the Garden with Mike Darcy," Mike's guest, Terry Flanagan (Certified Arborist), discussed apple tree pruning, specifically water sprouts. On this show and on another episode he appeared on several weeks ago he said something about matching pruning timing with desired results. IIRC, you could control how much regrowth you would get by pruning at certain times of the year. I think he said that late summer pruning would result in less regrowth. On the most recent episode, the pruning subject was a neglected apple tree, the previous one was an ornamental tree (magnolia?). I wish I still had it on tape to check my memory.
I usually prune when the trees are bare - easier to see the structure - but I'd love to minimize pruning chores on prolific growers such as my Japanese maples.
Thoughts?
mdvaden
Location: Oregon, Western
Posted: Dec-26-2004 at 4:28pm
I believe in what Mr. Flannigan said based off the experience I've had. Other pruning specialists believe likewise, too. I'll bet Terry has been at this long enough too, to have learned it by observation. Experience goes a long way.
For the summer pruning (LIGHT thinning pruning) removing a few water sprouts does appear to keep the tree in check. You would be amazed at how simple it just made my winter pruning. My two column shaped trees @ 13' tall took 5 minutes each. I did two 10 minute prunings to each in summer. Once near July and another at late August. Fruit size appears unaffected as long as the operation is a mellow affair.
It's really keeping the tree stunted in a way. And why not? We're trying to keep them reduced anyway.
It's not the time of year to remove a lot off the top or you will get sunburn. You should see all the apple trees I've started work on that have sunburn. Once up on the ladder and looking down at the top, the bark has:
1. Been burned
2. Peeled off
3. Wood decayed
4. Sunk in and weathered away
And finally, there are these little "pools" of water up there on top - like little bird baths.
I like to do dormant pruning to late October or November to snatch off a bit of the energy source before it all gets down the tree. I see no need for storing all that energy for the full size tree down below when 1/4 to 1/2 the volume will be standing there next spring.
The leaf size of the photo below should give an idea of my fruit size; not massive but very decent. The honey crisp, another, are green and much larger. A quick walk outside showed the label on this here to be liberty
I kind of "squeeked" by last year without any sprays at all and got no disease and zero insects. Not sure if I should try that the same way next summer.
M.D. Vaden
DebbieTT
Location: Washington, Kitsap Peninsula
Posted: Dec-26-2004 at 8:28pm
MD, I have never sprayed my 'Liberty' apple. It is an excellent choice for organic growing and almost a tree to neglect. So far no problems after growing mine for 7 years and the only intervention I have done is handpicking tent caterpillars when we had severe infestations. Everyday I had to hand pick because the cats were coming over from the alders across the street.
Lisa A
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Dec-27-2004 at 10:39am
One of Terry Flanagan's examples and your references address apples specifically. But I am more interested in how ornamental trees react to pruning timing (I don't have apples). Can I assume that all trees will react in similar ways or would that be a false analogy?
IIRC, Terry mentioned tree sugars (AKA sap) movement when he talked about pruning timing but I can't remember the details of what he said. I pruned my weeping Japanese maple in early December and a few of the cuts bled so obviously the sap was moving (downward to the roots?). I probably should have waited to prune until Jan or Feb but a few of the branches were reaching far out into the sidewalk and I didn't want company getting snagged by those errant arms. It also wouldn't be good if the branches were broken at the wrong point. Anyway, I pruned it and wondered if the sap bleeding would impact the tree in anyway. TIA!
Lisa A
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Dec-27-2004 at 10:41am
'Liberty' was an apple we recommended often when I worked at Loen's Nursery. I had heard such good things about it - easy care and good eating and IIRC, it was self-pollinating. Good to hear you two have had such good luck with it.
mdvaden
Location: Oregon, Western
Posted: Dec-27-2004 at 3:07pm
About ornamental trees vs. apple sprouts in summer; they are almost not comparable. I'm zooming out the door for an oil change and will reply longer this evening.
I have a feeling I put something in the FAQs that would more apppropriately explaing ornamental trees. Apple is a special ordeal because we are fighting nature.
M.D. Vaden
mdvaden
Location: Oregon, Western
Posted: Dec-27-2004 at 7:39pm
About the "bleeding" - I just started pruning fourteen large to huge Japanese weeping maples today. They are 8' to 10 tall and about 9' to 15' wide. These are dripping too, and it doesn't phase me. I've never seen a problem from dripping - more water where that came from.
I'm not certain that what the tree moves to the roots in winter is in the middle wood part of the branch. The water you see is not neccessarily water moving down the trunk. (Wouldn't trees dehydrate without any water movement to keep the top moist for several months?). The dripping I see is from the xylem, not the phloem / cambium area.
When trees drip, nothing changes. Before the cut, water was moving from Point A to Point B. When the branch is removed, water is still moving from Point A to Point B; only Point B is now the air. But the mechanics did not change. It's dripping, but the movement of the water is basically identical. Any change would be in a week or two when dripping stops. Then water is not moving from Point A to Point B.
BACK TO ORNAMENTALS and SPROUT cutting in summer; about the only practical application I can think of would be crabapple, flowering plum, hawthorn and a few exceptions like that which tend to produce watersprouts.
It would be a good idea to prune the watersprouts off those in summer anyway.
There can be a flip side of this. Have you ever noticed that when sprouts are left on an apple tree for a while, like a few years, that hardly any new watersprouts are formed?
As sprouts grow, they start to produce auxin hormone which flushes downward and hinders other buds from sprouting out of control. That's why apple sucker viciously every year is because the natural chemical control factories at sprout tops are removed yearly - hence no control and lots of sprouts.
For that reason, I only lightly thin sprouts in summer.
M.D. Vaden
Lisa A
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Dec-28-2004 at 11:00am
Thanks for answering my bleeding question. I'm glad to hear there won't be any harmful effect to my tree.
Perhaps I'm not asking my question clearly or if you've answered it, it hasn't sunk into my brain yet (my apologies for being dense) . . . if I prune my ornamentals lightly in late summer, will I see less regrowth? I'm pretty sure Terry Flanagan mentioned this, plus I've heard a few others say something about matching pruning timing with desired regrowth. I'm off to check FAQs, in case the answer is there.
Originally posted by mdvaden
"There can be a flip side of this. Have you ever noticed that when sprouts are left on an apple tree for a while, like a few years, that hardly any new watersprouts are formed?" As sprouts grow, they start to produce auxin hormone which flushes downward and hinders other buds from sprouting out of control. That's why apple sucker viciously every year is because the natural chemical control factories at sprout tops are removed yearly - hence no control and lots of sprouts.
For that reason, I only lightly thin sprouts in summer."
I had forgotten until I read your above comments that Terry made this observation as well. As he pruned the neglected apple, he made a point of leaving some water sprouts with ample spacing and air circulation for them to grow healthily. He said, also, that because all sprouts had been removed in past years, the tree's top branches had quite a bit of sunburn and subsequent damage (which you address above) and that leaving some sprouts would protect the tree from further sun damage.
mdvaden
Location: Oregon, Western
Posted: Dec-28-2004 at 11:11pm
I'm not sure if I can pinpoint an answer about whether summer pruning of ornamental trees "limits" regrowth. I'll check around and see what may be available. I know it's not in the ISA certification manual.
Dr. Shigo might make mention of this kind of thing in one of his books.
Do you want to prune to keep trees in control, or are you interesting in stunting or slowing down the rate of growth?
M.D. Vaden
Lisa A
Location: Oregon, Greater Portland Metro
Posted: Dec-29-2004 at 11:21am
I need to prune for various reasons - to keep the weeping Japanese maple away from the front walk, for instance - so if I can time my pruning to reduce subsequent pruning (I know I won't eliminate the need), that would be helpful.
I'm not interested in stunting or bonsai or such.
Thanks for checking into this further, MD.
mdvaden
Location: Oregon, Western
Posted: Dec-29-2004 at 8:36pm
If the summer pruning mellows next season's growth - then summer will probably be the main season to investigate.
I can tell you for a fact that it's not spring pruning that would do that.
The Shigo book I checked did not have anything on that aspect.
It was interesting - it did have something unusual about covering pruning cuts. (we know wound paint is bad) Dr. Shigo said that there may be merit to an old practice of putting wet moss on a pruning cut and covering it with black plastic for 6 months to speed callus.
Trees will do fine with no dressing, but Dr. Shigo said the moss and plastic thing is worth research. (who knows, it may have a special application on certain specimens for bigger cuts).
M.D. Vaden
Gardening for the Homebrewer: Grow and Process Plants for Making Beer, Wine, Gruit, Cider, Perry, and More
By co-authors Debbie Teashon (Rainy Side Gardeners) and Wendy Tweton